What If Roe v. Wade is Overturned?
Abortion is a hot topic these days. The movie “Unplanned” has helped it along. But Hollywood elites are crying, “Foul!” I just read one woman share how horrible her abortion was when she was four and a half months along and she wouldn’t want anyone to go through what she went through in bad conditions. Instead of grieving over the murder of her child and the toll this took on her body, mind, and emotions, she wants to promote abortion but just make sure they are done in “healthy” environments!
Let’s say Roe v. Wade is overturned someday (which I would rejoice over). What should happen to women who seek out illegal abortions? Up until 1973, babies were protected in the womb by law. Therefore, for most of the history of the United States, babies were valued and considered worthy of life. In 49 of the states, abortion was considered a felony; in New Jersey, abortion was a high misdemeanor.
Those who performed abortion were punished and so were the women who had abortions. What if abortions become illegal? What should be the punishment for those who seek abortions and those who perform them? Should there even be a punishment? I believe there needs to be some type of punishment for women seeking abortions or what would there be to deter others from having them? I’m not sure it should be jail time but there needs to be something that clearly shows that abortion is murder and to put fear into women who want to abort. The abortionists should go to jail for many, many years.
There needs to be consequences for disobeying the law. We go over the speed limit, we get a ticket if the policeman sees us. We steal, we must pay back or even be put into jail. All crimes are punished and getting an abortion, if it is illegal, is no different. Yes, the punishment should be weighted with the crime. If a woman aborts her eighth month baby, the punishment should be much greater. A teenager whose parents are forcing her to have an abortion, the parents should suffer the consequences.
If we believe abortion is murder (which it is), there needs to be clear consequences for not only performing the murder but for those allowing it to happen to them. After all, “our nation has been polluted and defiled by child sacrifice and the shedding of innocent blood ever since [Roe v. Wade]” (Rusty Thomas). God calls the murder of one’s child an abomination (Deuteronomy 18:10-12). God doesn’t take it lightly. Why should we?
Illicit sex is where this whole problem begins. We live in a highly sexualized culture. Fornication is common among many. Yes, there’s birth control but no birth control is 100 percent effective so abortion rates will continue to be over a million a year, most likely. Sex education in public schools are a travesty. Children need to be taught abstinence and the beauty of sex in marriage. It’s the ONLY safe place where sex should take place and they need to be taught the value of having children. This won’t happen until children themselves feel valued which many do not. We live in an anti-child culture.
How are we to deal with all of this today? We are to be salt and light, women. The Apostle Paul wrote his epistles in a wicked culture. He taught young women to marry, bear children (yes, have children!), and guide the home. Love their husbands and children, be discreet, chaste, good, sober, obedient to their husbands and keepers at home. These were completely contrary to the culture in which he wrote them, as they are even today. Keep walking in truth and obeying God. It’s the best place to be and in doing this, you WILL be salt and light!
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 5:16
82 thoughts on “What If Roe v. Wade is Overturned?”
I’m absolutely disgusted by the attitudes I’ve been hearing all over social media totally disregarding that there even is a human life involved! To them, it’s all about what’s convenient, even if it is murder….
It’s obvious, but people ignore the reality that abortion is rooted in fornication. When people scoff at God’s commandments and do what they want to do with “their” bodies, evil fruit is always the end result. Sex outside of marriage is both ungodly and unsafe, especially for women. A genuine fear of God should deter women from committing fornication and waiting until marriage to have sex. Women should only make themselves available for marriage; if a man is demanding or insisting on sex prior to this, he is NOT a Christian and the woman should distance herself from him.
Have you ever noticed how frequently the liberal left likes to talk about “science” and “facts”. They post memes with snarky comments such as “I like science because you don’t have to believe in it for it to be true” as a slam to those of us who are believers. Well, look at the science that proves that a pregnancy is a human being. Look at the ultrasound images which are so very clear now. Look at the number of babies that have survived in spite of being born very prematurely, such as my friend’s miracle baby born at 25 weeks and is now a thriving young teen. Look at the fact that surgeons can now operate on a baby while the baby is still in the womb. How is it we have all of these scientific facts right in front of our faces…and yet it doesn’t matter?? “Science” is only important to the liberal left when it is convenient. They quickly dismiss scientific facts and begin talking about “rights” whenever they appear to stand in the way of what they want.
Married people have abortions. How do we punish them?
Lori, I will be rejoicing with you if our current abortion laws are overturned!! Until then, I will be praying for the protection of preborn babies and being salt and light in this dark culture. Thank you for speaking out so unashamedly. If God be for us, who can be against us? In other words, it doesn’t really matter what man tries to legislate because we are on the winning side! All souls belong to Him… especially all of those who have been denied the right to live out God’s purposes and plans on this side of eternity. Have mercy on us, O Lord.?
They should be punished the same way. It’s still murder
The Transformed Wife — what I think I hear you saying is you support the death penalty for those who seek abortion. I know a lot of people on FB responding to this post do. You say you aren’t sure if “jail” is right, but something needs to put fear into women as a deterrent. If not jail then what? I think most of your readers support the death penalty.
Science is making it harder and harder to deny that this *uterine tissue* is a baby. The left simply does not want to admit the obvious. They want the right to kill their children- for any reason.
I never imagined it would be overturned in my lifetime, but the way the left is screaming & trying to scare women to death, it means there’s actually hope!
Well said!
Many abortions are performed & sadly often encouraged by doctors because the developing baby has some sort of disability. It makes me sad that Churches turn away families who have children with disabilities especially those with obvious deformities and on breathing machines. Please remember that these souls who could have been easily killed have parents that chose life for them. Unless, of course, the belief is such that parents are punished with a child that has a disability for past sins. I don’t think I read that on this blog, but it’s unfortunately quite a common Christian thought.
Amen!
No, I have never stated that I would support the death penalty for those who have abortions. Some may, but I don’t. I do believe that it would be the right punishment for abortionists, however. They know full well what they are doing as they pull out from a woman’s body the body parts of the baby they are murdering.
There are all types of reasons women get abortions. Some are pressured into it, others are frightened, and many other consider the baby an inconvenience. It’s the whole mentality that needs to be changed. All life is precious and needs to be protected! We have a culture of death right now that is getting worse. I pray this changes but my hope remains steadfast upon the Lord.
Hopefully the murderous Roe is overturned, but the root of the problem happened eight and four years prior to Roe in 1973. In 1965, SCOTUS legalized contraception with Griswold vs.Commecticut, and in 1969, they legalized porn in ‘Stanley vs. Georgia’. They followed this up with 2003’s horrendous ‘Lawrence vs. Texas’ legalizing homosexuality, and 2015’s horrific ‘Obergefell vs. Hodges’ legalizing homosexual marriage.
All are unbiblical and unconstitutional. One can easily show how all are crimes against nature with both the Bible and/or Science.
Also, we used to severely stigmatize masturbation, and carefully train children to avoid it, to preserve sex for marriage alone. That teaching has virtually vanished. It needs to return, ASAP.
A society that does not ensure zero sex of any kind before marriage, and fidelity within it, is a society that is in serious trouble.
We will always hear from those who will lie and say these things were commonplace in America before. Well, 100 years ago, the rates were VASTLY lower than today. Sex outside of marriage is the root of virtually all of our societal problems today, combined with the related drug use, which many sexual sinners turn to to relive the misery their sin causes them.
I can’t believe anyone would teach that…that a soul, disabled or not, is not a blessing but a punishment?! In the parish church I grew up in, there were many, many huge families. In many of the huge families somewhere around #10 or #12 there would be a disabled or Down Syndrome baby. As a popular teenage babysitter who early on fell in love with big families and desired my own (we were a small family of only four children), I quickly noticed the immense LOVE in families with a disabled child. The patience and love that all shared was impressive.
One Christmas the parish priest chose a young Down Syndrome girl to carry Baby Jesus up the aisle for him to place in the manger; it’s a tradition to put the Baby Jesus statue in the manger before
Midnight Mass. Anyway, his sermon was on why he picked her. He told all the families with these disabled children, “you are blessed!” These children can’t will to offend God without the use of reason, these baptized souls will go to Heaven when they die, unable to choose to sin and perhaps being unrepentant against God. And he brought up the virtue their very existence stimulates a need for in the family. I was only 13 or 14, but as you can see, I still remember it clearly 20 years later. All life is beautiful! God makes no mistakes.
Abortion is a national defense issue. No nation that countenances the murder of millions of unborn babies can expect or call upon a just God for aid and protection from its enemies.
Lady Virtue – wonderfully put ! I would add only a few things.
I would say that abortion is rooted in fornication and the evil culture of birth control.
I agree that a fear of God and respect for her future husband and children should deter a woman from fornication. And yes a woman should distance herself from a man seeking sex before marriage. But also a Godly man should distance himself from a woman who would allow it as unworthy of being a wife or mother to his children.
No, KSM, parents who have children with disabilities aren’t being punished for past sins or we all would have disabled children! We live in a fallen world and disabled children are part of it. I agree SM. God uses disabled children in families for good. They make people more compassionate, loving, and willing to serve others. All things work together for good to those who love God and are called according to His purposes.
You are right that only between husband and wife, in marriage and open to God’s blessing of life is sexual activity morally acceptable, outside of sin and a positive as opposed to negative force.
SM-that is so beautiful to read! ALL LIFE IS BEAUTIFUL indeed! Thank you for sharing that wonderful memory!
Sadly, there are even some married women getting abortions, at least here in New Zealand. Some people seem to see it as a form of contraception 🙁
The only time I can see abortion being justified is when the pregnancy is a result of rape and the mother’s mental (or physical) health is threatened, or when the pregnancy is a result of incest, especially rape of a child. And of course when the mother’s life is endangered if the pregnancy continues. But even then, very careful medical care is sometimes an option.
Churches turn away families with disabled children? Where?
In the case of rape, two wrongs never equal a right. I can’t see it for a mother’s “mental” health either. Women could use this excuse all the time for an abortion.
Susanne,
You keep saying that having sex without the possibility of it creating life is sinful. Is it sinful when a husband has sex with his pregnant wife? There is no way that another life can be created while she is pregnant. What about a husband having sex with is postmenopausal wife? There is no way she is going to get pregnant. Is that sin also? What about a wife who has had a hysterectomy? There is no possibility of life being created in that union. Is that sinful?
I have tried to ignore these assertions on your part but you just keep on saying them over and over and you are potentially misleading many other women out there with your own personal misguided beliefs that are not backed by Biblical teaching. Please show us in the Bible where this is taught.
I’ve been to a few, and I live in a major metropolitan, largely liberal area of the US. Not exactly turned away, but it’s easy to see the glares and whispers at the family. I’ve seen people move away from them once they’ve chosen a seat in Church. I’ve witnessed Pastors/Priests scold a mother for not keeping a child quiet (mind you, this child had an obvious brain injury/malformation and mostly likely speech/noises were involuntary). That’s not exactly welcoming and all very sad. It makes me want to remind parishioners that they didn’t choose abortion for their sick baby and trusted God’s plan for their lives.
I now go to a Church that is welcoming of families with all kinds of children and speaks kindly of the disabled and the mentally ill and does not exclude them from worship.
Thank you, Trey. I agree with you. I don’t read every single comment and don’t respond to many of them.
Very good points!
I didn’t read Susanne’s comment that way at all. I took it to mean that only a husband and wife should engage in sexual relations without interfering with a blessing of life being welcomed by their union. Sex during pregnancy, a hysterectomy, and menopause will not result in a pregnancy, obviously, but the married couple engaging in such relations are not actively preventing a created life in those circumstances or life stages.
The church I attend is very lukewarm in its support for disabled people, whether children or adults (remember that special needs children grow up to be special needs adults). My disabled adult daughter has found a place for herself here, and I doubt any church around would be any better, so since she doesn’t handle change well we’re staying put.
We need better than lukewarm, Nick. I’m glad your daughter has found a place for herself. I’m sorry this has been your experience. I have always wondered why Church-goers have some sort of bias against those with disabilities. I have even heard “Better them than us.”
My father has very mild Cerebral Palsy-his mother smoked and during her pregnancy. He walks with a mild limp, has hardly noticeable hand tremors, and speaks a bit slowly. He supported our family and has his Master’s degree. My mom was a SAHM.
Even as a young girl, some of my earliest memories of going to church with my family, holding my Daddy’s hand, was contempt on part of the congregation. Others couldn’t possibly understand how my mom loved and married a man with a (very mild) disability. I heard whispers of “responsibility”, as if my father couldn’t possibly be a good provider and parent. We encountered strangers at the grocery store, at the car wash, and at the park who were much kinder to my dad and treated him like a human being.
Forever Grateful,
Where does the Bible teach that a husband and wife should only “engage in sexual relations without interfering with a blessing of life being welcomed by their union”?
Amen to that. I don’t know whether to guffaw or vomit whenever I hear American Christians refer to America as a “Christian” nation that will be blessed by God. Are these people living in some other nation called “America” that I’m unacquainted with?
Completely agree with you Lori!, although I think that a life sentence should be introduced for the disgusting rapists out there.
Lori – Here in New Zealand they *do* use it as an excuse for abortion – it’s the most common grounds. We don’t have abortion-on-demand here (yet, but likely will soon) so “mental health” is the default option.
I’m absolutely disgusted that churches do this. I don’t personally know of any (probably because I’ve been in the same church all my life and have never gone to another one) but if that is their attitude, it goes against the entire spirit of Christianity. Do these people not actually believe in Jesus? Jesus did not turn away disabled people! Mostly, He healed them. And He loved them.
I have a disability myself, and there are a number of extremely disabled people (of various disabilities) throughout our church all over the country, and they are loved and cherished by all. Obviously there are a few individuals who are less than welcoming, because humans are sinners, but the church as a whole is very welcoming and accommodating to all disabilities. I don’t understand how Christians and churches can be any other way. What is their justification for it?
Thank you Trey!!
You and I disagree on a great many things, but on this issue, I appreciate your insight.
Nowhere in the Bible does it say it is sinful to have sex without the possibility of creating life. Women are only fertile for a few days every month. Is having sex on one of the non-fertile days sinful?
How about sexual activities that don’t include intercourse? Are they sinful?
This is why so many young women raised in Christian homes believe sex is “dirty” and “sinful”, I think. Instead of being raised to believe that God created our bodies to be used for pleasure with our spouse, they’re raised to think it’s shameful, outside of very narrow parameters.
It’s usually through a strong sense of social disapproval, rather than an outright ban on disabled persons in service. We used to go to one church with our son (who is mentally disabled and sometimes rather loud), and the pastor asked us to keep him out of service because the people would be distracted by him. So I sat with him in the foyer, and that was the last time we ever went there. This was a church that we otherwise greatly respected. I believe it comes from the child-free atmosphere in most modern churches – we’re used to silent churches, with children elsewhere, so any sort of noise from disabled people is viewed with disapproval.
I have a daughter with an intellectual disability. She is a gorgeous, loving women. And very vulnerable. We had to make a decision to keep her safe. It wasn’t easy. She is on bc. And not because she is immodest, immoral or anything else. It is to protect her from those who think it’s ok to hurt her. I would rather have the sin of using bc than a pregnancy in which she risks passing on her genetic disorder (50%). There is no way she is able to raise a baby. I find abortion abhorrent. I know that people won’t agree , but they don’t live our life.
I am a prisoner of the Lord; my body has been bought with the price of innocent blood. I am no longer my own. I no longer get to make my own decisions. I no longer get to have my way. I am alive unto Christ. Scripture testifies that God knew us before we were even concieved (Jeremiah 1:5). How many people does God know that were rejected life through contraceptive methods? Both my parents were born whilst their moms were not actively trying to have a baby, my parents together now have 4 kids. If that contraception wouldve worked, my mom, dad, me and all my siblings wouldn’t have ever existed in this life. Only God knows truly how many people are snubbed of life when contraception is used on just one baby. The same Scripture testifies that God is the One who forms the life in the womb (Jeremiah 1:5).
Then why would older Christians be encouraging me to stop the work of the Lord? And that I’m irresponsible if I refrain from blocking His blessings because finances are bad? Is not God worthy of my trust? Is not God responsible with His children? Is the Lord really Almighty, or only in some things? It grieves my heart that these disagreements bring out the strife between the brethren. Wouldn’t this just be common sense? God does tell us to have the faith of a child (Matthew 18:3). If it is God who calls babies blessings (Psalm 128:1-6), and God who foreknows them (Jeremiah 1:5), and God who performs the work of their creation (Psalm 100:3), then how could I actively prevent His blessings in my life, that are not for me in the first place, but are for Him (Psalm 127: 3), and not call that sin? That’s like not trying to win crowns because you don’t personally want them, totally ignoring that the crowns are to be laid at the feet of Jesus (Revelation 4:10+11) !
“Yes, and you can win crowns if you want to, and can afford them, but crowns just aren’t for me.” They are For HIM, NOT for us! God has done SO much for us, and none of it was deserved, so why when it’s our turn to give back, do we search for loopholes, and excuses, to not give God His rewards that He most certainly deserves(Psalm 127:3)? Does God only rule you in some areas, but in others you are more wise and insist on taking control? Cause that’s what it sounds like. I want to give the Lord ALL the rewards He deserves, and ALL the rewards He wants; and He says that children are one His rewards (Psalm 127:3). The Lord is worthy of way more rewards than my womb could ever provide, nonetheless, I desire to give Him ALL. This IS a matter of faith, whether you like it or not, and the Bible says “. . . . For whatsoever is not of faith is sin.” Romans 14:23.
Mara – Your verses (and others) are used by a small minority of Christians who don’t believe in birth control. But those verses certainly don’t show that sex is sinful outside that tiny window of time when a baby can actually be conceived – which is what Susanne is suggesting in her comments.
By saying that all sex that is not open to the possibility of life is sinful, is blatantly incorrect and not scriptural. It is harmful to sexual relationships.
You sound like a wise woman Evie!
It is a sad indictment on our society that men can’t be trusted to keep the most vulnerable amongst us safe, but instead some of them would take advantage of that.
Being unable to have kids and purposely refusing your fertility is not the same thing. Women who can’t have babies are not sinning when they have sex with their husbands, nor did I ever suggest this, (Sarah, Hannah, and Rachel for example). Nor did I ever say that sex during the time that the wife isn’t ovulating is sin. Of course it’s not, there’s no way they would’ve been able to calculate that back in the day, and certainly not all those people who were intimate before science was able to detect fertility, was sinning! Neither are the beginning stages of sex (all that comes before) are sinful, either. But women whose bodies are fruitful, and yet refuse children that God foreknows, and FORMS Himself, are the ones that I was talking about! (And probably Suzanne, but Im not sure).
Couple nowadays want THEIR rewards from sex (which is pleasure), but wish to limit GOD’S rewards from sex (which are babies), when it was created to utlilize both. And then go on to say that teaching women to allow GOD to PLAN your family size is MISLEADING them!? Is the hand of the Lord waxed short?
The rewards of God are determined by how many babies WE want, rather than by how many babies GOD wants. Human nature is so quick to think of itself before it thinks of God, we live to ever please ourselves. But this STOPS when we get saved, Hallelujah!
God had fore ordained Jeremiah to be His prophet before he was even born! How many babies does God already have a mighty plan for, that are never allowed to be born? How many missionaries, submissive wives, preachers, does He constantly get refused access to make?
Any way that we can give back to the Lord, as Christians, we should! Amen! I want my life to be a sweet savour unto the Lord.
To close this I want to say that you are still my sister in the Lord (and Trey is still my brother), even when we strongly disagree, and I love you. This should not cause us to be rude to one another. I do not wish to condemn you, I wish to bless you with the information that I have found from older women in the Lord, from prayer, and from scripture reading. I desire nothing more than to please the Lord with my life, and I just want the same for my brethren. I apologize if I’ve come on too strong in the past. I just love babies and have come to love them even more knowing how much God is blessed by them. I have always loved large families, but the world told me this was irresponsible, amd dangerous, and like you, I was all for birth control for quite a while. I even asked my mom if I could be on birth control when I was twelve so I could grow my hair out, lol. But I have been blessed to learn the amazing power that God has that is only found through having faith in Him in everything. If I’m poor, and the Lord opens up my womb, then He whose thoughts are higher than my thoughts, has a plan, and I can rest assured that He knows what He’s doing. For I lay my whole body down as a sacrifice unto the Lord.
I can tell you that at our older age, our children and now our grandchildren are by far our greatest blessings in this life. Nothing else even comes close.
That is a lack of faith. Glad Moses’s mother didn’t have your lack of faith. You are worried about a possible genetic disorder being passed on, Moses’s mother faced the certainty of a child being born into slavery. She still did it.
Exactly what is the intellectual disorder? Many are a bunch of fairy tales anyway. Trusting the psychiatric community is lunacy. They are crazier than the people they try and help. Their cure is worse than the disease.
Mara – you are absolutely right. And as we come from very different denominations of Christianity the fact that our feeling are so alighted very much illustrates the growing realisation among Christian women that birth control is a sinful rejection of God’s love and of his purpose and design for us as women, for marriage and for the intimacy between husband and wife.
Is there a specific scripture that forbids birth control? My husband sees things in black and white (part of his autism) and wants to read it.
No, there isn’t a specific verse that forbids birth control but if we take Scripture as a whole, we can clearly see that God’s will for married couples is to have children and raise them in the nurture and the admonition of the Lord.
I don’t think she’s worried about the possibly of genetic illness being passed on. I imagine her grown adult daughter with the intellectual capacity of a young child, one who can easily be persuaded into a sexual relationship/rape by perverted men who wish to take advantage of her innocence. I don’t think this has anything to do with psychiatry and mental illnesses.
Maybe people with serious health issues like mine and Evie’s daughter should just not marry then. If it is a sin for married couples to be childfree. 🙁 Maybe celibacy is God’s will fo rthose of us with disabilities.
The Bible calls children a blessing, but I do not see anywhere that they are mandatory for all couples, except for Noah and family and Adam and Eve. The verses commanding children were not written to anyone else in the Word. Having said that, would be a sad world if nobody had children- we would all die out as humans.
The command to be fruitful and multiply are still applicable for us today! “I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully.” (1 Tim. 5:14) Older women are commanded to teach younger women to love their children! Even when the Israelites were being taken captive, God told them to bear children and have their children marry and bear children. This has always and will always be God’s will for us!
Surely you understand that it’s a sin for couples to purposely decide not to have children when there’s no reason they can’t. Yes?
But God’s will for married couples isn’t for them to just carry on having children that they can’t take care of – whether for health or other reasons.
There are so many verses about being responsible. Why do some think we are to be responsible in making good choices in every other part of life, but be absolutely irresponsible in the most precious thing of all?
Girl4Jesus – I know a number of married Christian couples who have chosen to remain child-free. They all have quite serious health issues which mean they could not take care of their children.
Sin is a heart issue. If you don’t want children because you’re too selfish and focused on your career, that’s sin. If you don’t want children because you know that you can’t raise them (and I don’t mean you would struggle, but that you physically can’t do it – pregnancy would likely kill you etc.) then of course it’s not a sin.
The Bible speaks in so many places of our heart. If you pray earnestly and ask God, He will reveal His will to you. And once He’s done that, if we make every effort to do it, He will help us.
Where are all these verses about being “responsible,” KAK? I read a whole lot more about obeying the Lord and trusting Him! Living by faith instead of by fear. Are you telling me that all of those couples who had many children and were considered poor before birth control were being irresponsible and now since birth control, we can finally be responsible when deciding how many children we are to have? Happy is the man who has a quiverful, the Bible clearly tells us.
I am dismayed at your reply. Maybe I should educate you on my daughter’s disability? It’s called Neurofibromatosis 1. Please have compassion for those families who are doing it tough raising disabled children
Ignorance is different to irresponsibility. When we know better, we should do better.
There is also a difference between being poor and not being able to take care of children. My family is technically poor but we lack nothing. But if you read the book Angela’s Ashes (a true story) that’s a perfect example of where birth control would have been a great help.
But with responsibility I’m talking more about physical limitations. Health problems. Mental illness. Where I live, our social welfare system is so generous that people can just scrape by on benefits, regardless of the size of their families. The more kids they have the more money they get, so the kids don’t miss out. They don’t have luxuries – but they survive.
But mental health is poorly funded.
Our poorly-funded public health system means sometimes long waiting lists for surgeries etc. and doctor visits are very expensive. Dental visits ever more so.
Health problems (including mental health) are a legitimate reason people should consider birth control. Many mentally ill parents abuse their children (depending on the type of mental illness and how well it’s managed). And many parents with physical health problems can manage a certain number of children and then reach their limit – if they *know* they have reached their limit, choosing to not have any more children is probably wise.
As for verses about responsibility, here are a few: Proverbs 6:6 Luke 14:28 Galatians 6:5
Some people do choose to just rely on the many verses about faith and just carry on and trust God – but I’ve seen many cases where that doesn’t work out well. After all, our greatest concern as parents is that our children will grow up to love God. If we simply can’t find the strength to carry on having children, it’s going to be incredibly difficult to teach the ones we have to love the Lord.
I’m sorry I truly didn’t mean to offend you if I was the one who did in my above comment. No, I don’t know what’s it like to raise a child with a disability. I DO know intellectual disorders are real and I’m not at all against modern medicine for treating illnesses. TBH there’s genetic illnesses that are in my family and I fear passing them on to future children.
You do know that there is no birth control that is 100 percent, right? My neighbor’s father got a vasectomy and his wife got pregnant a year later. They went on to have five more children because he figured He wasn’t going to reject God’s blessings. I wish you would read Nancy Campbell’s articles at Above Rubies about the many couples who trusted God with their fertility and never looked back. They are truly remarkable. If God calls children a blessing (and they are! Our children and grandchildren are our greatest blessings by far!), why would anyone want to reject them? This is the birth control mentality of today. God is our Provider!
Hi Lizzy,
The one verse that comes to mind is actually the story of Onan. He was struck dead for “spilling his seed”….withdrawal method as is known today. The point is, that deliberately frustrating the marriage act as God intended it to be is an intrinsic evil, that means some things are just evil and subjective situations can’t alter that. So what I am NOT saying is that NFP or FAM (as long as no barrier method is used during fertility) is evil when it is absolutely necessary to “try” and avoid pregnancy at the moment. The idea isn’t either only having sex when you can get pregnant, but having an open to life mentality. BUT, and this is a big but, at the end of the day we have to be open to any life God would bless us with, not deliberately frustrate the act (artificial contraception or pull out, etc…), and have sex in the right place. Meaning the seed,whether to take hold or not, must deposit in the the correct biological area. This is part of our dignity as men and women in Christ. God struck Onan dead for his perverted act. Christ said the poor would always be with us, we can’t erase poverty, and we know evil will be there. But you can’t justify evil, esp intrinsic evil, as an excuse that it is a lesser evil to keep other supposed evil from happening. (I’m not saying you said this but it’s a common emotional argument in this thread). What’s wrong is wrong, plain and simple. Just because we can do something does not mean we should.
The “reply” doesn’t always line up with the original commenter, KSM, but I’m pretty certain your comment was not the offensive one to Evie. Your comment was a lovely defense-so glad it was posted and hopefully, Evie saw it, lest she thinks anyone else would support questioning a mother protecting her adult special needs daughter!
It wasn’t you, KSM. Thank you for your kind words.
Forever Grateful-I wasn’t sure if her reply was to me or to the previous comment, but either way wanted to offer support and clarity to her family & daughter. 🙂
KAK,
Andrea Yates comes to mind when I read your comments. This religious woman was known to be unwell, and sadly took the life of her own 5 children. Her family did not take her mental illness diagnosis seriously.
Certainly instances like this do not negate God’s commands, but woman like her are forgotten in conversation of illness and pregnancy/motherhood. These women do exist, and they are truly unwell.
“Some people do choose to just rely on the many verses about faith and just carry on and trust God – but I’ve seen many cases where that doesn’t work out well.”
Do you serve Thor? Buddha? Maybe the Golden Calf? Because if so, then I most definitely understand why you would use birth control. Those gods are gods made of man’s hands; of course they can’t do anything.
But you mean to tell me that you serve the God who brought the Israelites out of Egypt, the God who created a world-wide flood, split the Red Sea in half, cast out devils, raised the dead, the God who shut the mouths of lions, made a donkey to speak, kept the sun in the sky for the Israelites battles, the God who promised that 5 Israelites would be able to run off 100 enemies, sustained a man in the belly of a whale, promises that if we have faith the size of a mustard seed that He will cast mountains into the sea; heck, the God who CREATED Heaven and Earth! And yet have the nerve to say that trusting God doesn’t work out very well!? Have you lost your mind!?
I’ve tried to be patient with you but you continue to run from all my agruments, and spew your faithlessness to many other young women on this site. You encourage women to doubt God’s power and provision at every turn, and He doesn’t deserve that!
If you truly believe that women can be on birth control because they have “enough” children or finances are bad, or whatever, then please, give me your best VERSES, not OPINIONS, to support it!
Thank you; I’ve been pro-life my whole life, but only recently (less than a year) did I become pro-God’s will. I figured I’d get flack back from the world, but to get it from Christians was very disheartening. Your encouragement is greatly appreciated! God bless! 🙂
She is an extremely rare case, KSM. Not many mothers are going around and murdering their own born children. Yes, many millions have them murdered in their wombs but not after they’re born.
SM,
The account of Onan is not pertinent to the modern Church. When you study God’s word, you have to consider the context of what is written if you are to have any chance at understanding what is actually being said or the lesson that is being taught.
The reason that Onan was struck dead was because he violated Mosaic Civil Law. The Mosaic Law outlined the requirements for levirate marriage: if a married man died childless, his brother was obliged to have sex with (marry) the widow for the purpose of siring a son who could inherit the dead man’s property and carry on the man’s name. (Deuteronomy 25:5–10) Onan did have sex with his dead brothers wife but spilled his seed on the ground so as to not sire a son and perpetuate his brother name. The true crime of Onan was not that he “spilled his seed” but of refusing to sire a son on his brother’s behalf.
As New Testament believers, we are no longer bound by Mosaic Civil Law and therefore this story has no application to us in the Church age. Even if we were still bound by all of the Old Testament laws, “spilling seed” was NOT one of them.
I’m sorry, Trey, but you are mistaken. Please see this article which explains Onan in more detail and don’t forget that “Onanism” was a word that used to be heard in our vocabulary regarding the pull out method of frustrating conception taking place. Protestants followed The Catholic Church’s correct lead regarding birth control until 1930 when the Anglicans caved into worldly pressure. That is quickly explained here too. This has an excellent short history of birth control and Onan:
https://www.catholic.com/tract/birth-control
Lori – Of course I know that no birth control is 100% – our 3rd daughter is proof of that!
Mara – I have no desire to argue with you. This is not a salvation issue. If you believe birth control is a sin, by all means, don’t use it. That’s between you and the Lord. I believe otherwise, as does my church, as that is between me and the Lord (and my husband).
I don’t know how old you are Mara, or anything about your circumstances, but I can tell you that if you walked in my shoes, your perspective might change.
I have 4 children aged 6-16. My husband no longer serves the Lord (although he has an incredible understanding of the Bible and he does still believe, he’s just unwilling right now). He has substance addictions. He brings these addictions and other bad influences, into our home, around our teenagers. Although I require my teenagers to come to church with me, outside influences are strong and at this stage they have indicated no desire to serve the Lord. I pray daily for them.
You might make yourself feel better by trying to condemn me, but the thing is, you have no idea why we made the decision for me to have a tubal ligation. You have no idea how we came to that decision, how much we prayed, how much we discussed, and the peace we have with this decision. I *don’t* feel condemned.
You don’t know the health problems we face. You don’t know anything about us, or about anyone else.
I would hate a young woman reading on here, a young woman who is at the end of her tether, maybe about to snap (and I’ve been there!) to think she has no option but to keep on having babies she can’t handle. It’s not even about faith – sometimes the situations that we’re in mean just getting out of bed in the morning takes all the faith we can muster.
I also pray often that if our decision was wrong/sinful that God will give us another baby, if it is His will. So far, no baby. And as I’m 37, it’s unlikely.
You’re a Catholic, right? If so, I have a question I’m hoping you can help me with.
Do Catholics believe in creation? As in, the words in Genesis?
My teenagers attend a Catholic high school and as part of the science curriculum they learn about evolution. When they questioned this, the teacher (a Catholic) said Catholics don’t believe in creation, the words in Genesis are a metaphor.
Is this standard Catholic teaching or is that just one person’s interpretation?
Absolutely-we are losing millions to abortion. I am pro-life for ALL LIFE.
Abortion is evil. This does not negate the fact that there ARE women who are seriously mentally ill and while they may not muder their born children, they can certainly injure themselves and put their children at risk for harm. You cannot raise a healthy, well adapted child without a mentally sound, physically present mother to provide nurturing.
The Christian community is deafeningly silent about women with post partum depression and psychosis which are very real, debilitating illnesses.
We can’t possibly solve all of the problems in the world, KSM, but we can certainly stand up against the evil of abortion. I am not sure what you want the Christian community to do about depression and psychosis. We pray and help these women but as long as we live on this fallen and sinful earth, bad things will happen and yes, even to good people.
SM,
This blog site is based on the teachings of the Holy Bible and Christianity. Roman Catholicism is NOT Christian, it is a false religion https://www.gotquestions.org/catholicism.html that teaches heresy and deceives Billions into thinking they are saved when they are not. https://www.gty.org/library/topical-series-library/296/Explaining-the-Heresy-of-Catholicism
Because there is no belief in “FAITH ALONE IN CHRIST ALONE”, the VAST majority of those who call themselves Roman Catholic will go to hell when they die. It is one of Satan’s biggest wins throughout history.
Roman Catholicism and it’s made made rules (that have changed hundreds of times over the centuries) have little to do with TRUE Christianity. There is only enough truth in there to make the lies believable.
I pray that God will open your eyes (and the eyes of the other lost who read this) to the saving knowledge of His grace.
Salvation is through Faith Alone in Christ Alone… plus NOTHING.
https://carm.org/why-is-faith-alone-in-christ-alone-the-only-way-to-be-saved
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bible-Verses-About-Justification-By-Faith-Alone/
The Bible says, “As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.” Revelation 3:19
You have clearly demonstrated how you don’t wish to argue with me by all the times you have abandoned our conversations just when they were getting good. I have previously told you that I love you, that I also don’t believe this is a salvation issue, and that my purpose wasn’t to condemn you. I even apologized if I came on too strong. I tried to keep the peace; you never replied.
The verses that you have given to support your beliefs, I have previously shown on another post how they were referring to laziness and negligence, not “irresponsible” fertility practices. God Almighty has control of fertility, and that’s irresponsible how. . . ? We as Christian women need to take the responsiblity of telling the Lord, “No!” It is our responsiblity to restrict God’s faulty conceiving abilities.
God can also CLOSE the womb; let’s not forget this! He knows what we are capable of, does He not? He knows if we can truly handle another baby or not. Why can’t we trust that He will not give us more than we can handle?
God is not a dummy! God is not a screw up! God does not make mistakes! And God does not abandon His children! If any young woman, or old, on this site has fears of being stretched too thin, the best advice you will ever recieve, is to trust in the Lord. “. . . For he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.” Hebrews 13:5
KAK, your family is in my prayers.
The youth group our children attend at church just started a summer Bible study of Galatians-Paul has some powerful warnings for adding to the Gospel in the very first chapter.
Great reminders, Trey!
Hi KAK,
I’m so sorry for your experience. Absolutely not is the answer. Of course Catholics believe in Genesis and Creation!!! The Latin Vulgate translated by St.Jerome was the first official translation of the Bible and there were many monks who spent their lives illuminating and hand-transcribing the Bible, what we know to be the written word of God. I’m horrified that evolution is being taught at your children’s Catholic school and this is corruption. The Catholic Church has been the teaching authority and safe guard of tradition and the Deposit of Faith since Christ gave Peter the keys to the kingdom of Heaven, and made him his first vicar on earth. Unfortunately the saying “the corruption of the best is the worst” is true and evil men have been working against the Catholic Church from within, knowing that the schools are a battle field for minds. So, my parents took us out of parochial (parish) schools when I was little and homeschooled us. I am doing the same with mine.
Sorry KAK,
Think my answer to you got posted above! 🙂
Wow Trey! I’m looking fwd to answering this comment. Very much so. I believe you’re really in earnest. However I took a quick glance at your website and right off the bat shook my head…for one we don’t “worship Mary” …it’s the same old lies about Catholics ( Catholic meaning “universal”, one of the four marks of the one true Church), that have been going on since Protestantism reared its ugly head. In fact, your post to me could have been written by Martin Luther himself who actually said – “Sin boldly. But believe more boldly. ” For it’s only about Faith!
When I have a break later from my six little ones, I look fwd to responding. The Catholic Church doesn’t make up religion, make up lies or add to the Bible. Protestantism tried to revolutionize Catholicism, take what it liked and leave what it didn’t and open the door to everyone being their own teacher and Holy Spirit— it’s been a nightmare for souls. Also, real quick, all Catholics are Christians but not all who claim to be Christian are Catholic….sort of like all squares are rectangles but rectangles aren’t squares. We had the name first. We “Christiani”(“little Christs”) were being thrown to the lions in the Coliseum and going to Mass in the Catacombs centuries before Protestant heresies began. But, I am glad you don’t seem to believe in ecumenism, as you are already saying I’m headed for Hell! At least we can both agree religious ecumenism is false! 🙂 I’ll write more later!
God bless! Sincerely in the Immaculata,
SM
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; (1 timothy 2:5)
A Priest is not needed, the Pope is not needed, and Mary is not needed. Only Jesus Christ!
Pope Piaus the 10th declared that, “The Pope is not simply a representative of Jesus Christ: on the contrary, he is Jesus Christ, Himself, under the veil of flesh.” Pope Innocent the 3rd who fathered the inquistion said, “The Pope holdeth place on earth; not simply of a man, but of the true god.” In 1984, Pope John Paul the second was quoted as saying, “Don’t go to God for forgiveness of sins, come to me.”
The Pope’s title, Vicarius Christi, literally means another Christ! Dave Hunt wrote, “The Latin equivalent of the Greek ‘anti’ is ‘vicarius’, from which comes ‘vicar’. Thus Vicar of Christ literally means Antichrist.”
All this isn’t even half of what’s wrong with the Catholic church. I truly pray that your eyes would be opened to its deception.
SM, I always enjoy your replies, and am looking forward to hearing your further post.
Response to SM,
Thank you to Trey and Mara for their Biblical defense of
Christianity.
“Protestantism reared it’s ugly head”?
I’ll gladly spend my life serving the Lord and believing in the sufficiency of the Scriptures and the Gospel over holy water, confessions to priests, attempting to earn salvation through good works, and a false security in infant baptism for the saving of souls (to name a few).
I know no authentic Christians who believe they are their own teacher or Holy Spirit. On the contrary, we know in our wretchedness, we are incapable of being in community with God, the Father, (the first part of the Trinity), apart from the sacrificial atonement of our sins by His son, Jesus Christ (the second part of the Trinity). By accepting the gift of Salvation, we agree to be taught by God and His Holy Word, the Bible, and ask the Holy Spirit (the third part of the Trinity), to live in our hearts-we are transformed and taught how to live by God and His Son, Jesus. We are nothing apart from Him. The true “nightmare for souls” is rejecting Jesus Christ and the Gospel.
Abortion is increasingly an anti-science point of view. Even secular people are increasingly against it. This issue will continually be revisited until legislation comes in line with reality. I do think social programs will need to be in place to help mothers in tough spots raise their children. We live in a broken world and should expect to have to deal with that as a reality. It’s more important that abortion is made into a less attractive “option” for women than it is to expect large scale societal shifts in which people who are not Christians are expected to act like Christians without the aid of the Holy Spirit. We can think of those tax dollars as standing in the gap for children—the least of these. Jesus would approve.