Advice to Virgins on Their Wedding Night
Many women who have waited for sex until marriage are nervous for their wedding nights. It’s a GREAT situation to be in! It’s good to be nervous and inexperienced on this special night and learn with your husband who you have committed yourself for life. What a blessing and a gift you give to your husband! I asked the women in the chat room what advice they would give to women in this situation.
“Try to not be nervous about your body. And if you are nervous, pray. It seems odd to pray during a sexual act but God made sex for marriage. I remember distinctly asking God to calm my nerves and to bless that time, and He certainly did!”
“Understand that this is the beginning of ‘knowing’ one another. It is NOTHING like it’s portrayed in books/movies. It’s likely to be awkward and he may be overwhelmed at first. Relax, laugh, snuggle, and praise God for the joy of learning this intimacy with all its nuances, with this man you’ll share the rest of your life ‘knowing.'”
“Because of today’s culture, I think we fantasize and/or panic about what it’ll be like. Don’t. Try to let yourself go and be in the moment with your husband. I can almost guarantee you that your husband will not notice and/or care about any imperfections you could be dwelling on. Relax! While it may be easier said than done, things go more smoothly than when you’re stressed out the whole time. Praying really helps here. Communication is also key. If you need some time to relax, communicate that. No husband wants to cause any sort of discomfort or pain.”
“The beautiful thing about sex is LEARNING with each other. It won’t be perfect like the movies, but it will be beautifully intimate. Be okay with letting go of your expectations and just enjoy each other. I so wish someone had told me this… ❤️”
“Calm your nerves enough to ENJOY what’s happening. It’s such a beautiful time that just the two of you get to experience. And when he asks, don’t be shy about being vocal about what you enjoy with him. He desires to please you as much as you want to please him. Also, like the other ladies said, it won’t look anything like the movies or books portray, and that’s okay.” (Whitney)
“Remind yourself that it will get better!”
“We’re five years into our marriage and are still learning one another! Take your time. Don’t take yourselves too seriously and communicate openly!”
“The awkwardness makes it sweet. And such special memories, during sex, for the rest of your marriage.”
“It’s not a performance. It’s deeply knowing one another in every way. It’s a skill, and like any skill, it takes practice. You get better together. Flexibility is very handy. That means being flexible in your body, but also in your expectations. It’s okay to change things up. Follow his lead. It doesn’t have to be the same way all the time. It’s okay to be sexual. God made you that way on purpose. Sex is good in marriage. It not just for him. It’s for you too. You’re supposed to enjoy it, and if you aren’t, make it a priority to work on that together.” (Lindsay)
“It’s painful! I remember thinking how in the world did my mom never tell me about how painful it is, lol? But, like anything, after the pain comes a wellspring of delight and it is worth it. It just gets better and better over time. ❤ I was a 27 year old virgin and waited for my prince, and it was worth every bit of the wait. God is so good! We’re celebrating our 10 year anniversary.”
“Don’t be disappointed if it’s really painful the first few times! It was for me and I actually bled. I was not expecting it, but it gets better. My husband was as sweet and patient with me as he could be.”
“Take it slow. Don’t rush. It’s gonna hurt a bit but don’t feel like you need to suffer either. You can try again the next night. And also, it shouldn’t be completely unbearable. If it hurts so bad that you can’t stand it, go speak to your OBGYN. You may have a special condition. They’ll help you. Don’t force yourself. You could hurt yourself severely.”
“Have fun! Enjoy being sexy for your husband and giving yourself to him. Let yourself go, and don’t overthink it too much. Use some type of lubricant! (You can buy one or use a natural oil such as coconut oil.) We’ve always used lubricants and sex was never painful for me, even the first time. If you feel awkward or don’t know how to start, ask if he’ll give you a full-body massage. ☺️ Taking a shower or a bath together are also good ideas!”
“Pray with your spouse before you enter that special time. Lubrication! Dim the lights. ? Play some music – lightly. ? Light a candle. ? It will probably be uncomfortable the first time… or five. Go slow and let your husband enjoy. It will come with time for you to fully enjoy and orgasm.” (Joanna)
Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love.
Proverbs 5:19
131 thoughts on “Advice to Virgins on Their Wedding Night”
Its a learning curve, you guys will get better and better over time. Its how God designed it to save sex for marriage. Its a great gift! You guys are officially becoming one flesh and making the marriage official. Praying before sex is a good thing, not weird at all. That first night is also a good start to show submission to the husband. Both spouses should be pleasured but the husband should be leading. God bless and enjoy!
Ladies, it’s not just us who may find it uncomfortable. I had been warned about that, so I was ok. What I was not expecting was my husband to say “I can’t believe some guys enjoy this.” Talk about crushing. Things got MUCH better and we laugh about it now, but at the time I was devastated. I was sure it was me and that I was completely inadequate. It was not me, he didn’t think it was me and we just needed more practice. 😉
Wow…this was surprise.?
Thank You So Much for this Mrs.Lori Alexander.
I am a man but articles like these clearly are the gold standard of what it is and what it should be and give a great perspective into the female psyche of what is going on at that time.
Thank You for standing up for being virgins and chaste. I am lucky that I got this Godly wisdom early on, before even being in a relationship.
God’s ways are perfect and being absolute virgins on your wedding night IS THE PERFECT way to start the matrimonial journey.
Majority of people don’t like it I suppose, but this is God’s way….one man, one woman, one life and both being virgins.❤?
Have A Great Day ahead!!❤?
I received some great advice that we ended up taking. Go to sleep! It’s been a big day and a busy time up to the point of the wedding. You are probably both exhausted even if you don’t realize it. Go to sleep, get up and shower (together? wink, wink!) and then have your first time together. Remember the two “L’s” . They are: laughter and lubrication! It might not be great the first time (or even the first few times!) and that is okay. You are learning about your own body as well as his. It is not a race or a competition. Wink and refuse to share details with well-meaning but nose friends and family who ask questions (and don’t ever become one of them.) You have your whole lives together to “perfect” this and enjoy one another. God gave you this as a gift to enjoy.
That’s such a great idea, Emily! At the end of a long day and the best day of your life with a lot of anxiety mixed in, most couples are absolutely exhausted by nightfall. Some couples wait a few weeks to go on their honeymoon for this reason. I think this is a great idea too! It’s much more enjoyable when the couple is rested and “know” each other a bit.
All of this is great advice! Thanks Lori for sharing this! I would like to add go to the bathroom after (it doesn’t have to be immediately after)and drink cranberry juice to help prevent UTIs. Also a good probiotic can help with vaginal health. And don’t sweat if things are awkward and uncomfortable at first. With communication and practice it gets so much better with time. And like others said if it’s still painful after some time, don’t wait (and don’t blame yourself) ! You and your husband can get help so that you guys can start to enjoy each other! I’m so glad my husband and I were each others first.
Since we’re keepin’ it real here.
Talk to your husband about effecting initial intromission thusly:
1. Have him lay on the bed on his back
2. Apply plenty of lubricant (definitely recommend water-based, oil-based will stain. Try Astro Glide).
3. Straddle your husband and lower yourself onto him.
This will allow you to control the initial process, including pace. The pain will be under your control and that helps it seem less.
That’s how my wife and I did it 45 years ago.
The other commenters are correct by the way, it keeps getting better.
I was taught nothing about sex. All the knowledge I gleaned were from movies/media/books/friends, so I didn’t really have a realistic view of what it was going to be like. For all the mothers out there, please give your children age appropriate sex education.
My first time really wasn’t awkward at all. My husband was not a virgin so maybe because he took the lead I felt like there was no pressure on me. I will say though, communication is so important. I was in constant pain for about 3 months after marriage because I didn’t tell him that I needed a break. When we would go to bed and he would touch me affectionately, not even necessarily sexually, I felt I needed to respond sexually, even though I was in a lot of pain. The pain was really more from not taking a break and we were being intimate at least twice a day but sometimes up to four. Also, we were uneducated about lubricant, which would it have made it much more comfortable. I tried to hint about it on our honeymoon but my husband can’t read my mind And I didn’t try again to tell him because it was a little awkward and I didn’t want him to feel bad. It would have been a lot more enjoyable for the honeymoon if I had just been honest about where I was at physically, but instead I was in constant pain. At least I have a lot to tell my daughters, and my husband has a lot to tell our sons. COMMUNICATION!
Sex is a lot more fun now. I don’t have a very high drive but I really enjoy the bonding, physical closeness, etc that happens during.
I am old. 70 years of God’s earth.
Yet I remember fondly my first marriage and our honeymoon.
We were 17. So young. And I can’t say we were virgins. (It was the 70’s)
But I quickly found that having sex and making love were two widely different things.
Having sex is of the body.
Making love is body and soul. The spiritual connection that is there surpasses the purely physical pleasure.
This is what Our Lord wanted to be.
Hopefully they know each other before marrying? What do you mean, Mrs. Lori?
No desire to sidetrack
But a question
How would a man know his wife was really a virgin on their wedding night and not lying?
You might want to discuss the female orgasm at some point ????? it’s actually biologically helpful to that whole being fruitful thing, and God made it so it is beautiful and perfect in all ways, right?
A question and a comment.
My husband and I both grew up in Christian families where it was stressed that sex was for the man..that women SHOULD NOT have pleasure but rather a women’s pleasure was to come from pleasing her husband, not from enjoying the act herself. I know most people haven’t been taught this, but since we both had this mindset coming into marriage (we’ve been married 30 years) we both willingly assumed this would be what our relationship would be like. And we are 100% in agreement.
I have never once ever denied my husband and he is pleased, and I have never once had my own physical “pleasure” or climaxed. (I don’t even know what that means since I haven’t experienced it) And he is pleased with this too as this was how he was raised. This works for us.
So my question is: Do husband’s really care if their wife “enjoys” it as long as she is willingly compliant and doesn’t deny him. I know my husband (who is an excellent father and husband) would be upset if I were to enjoy it for myself.
And my comment: Women, if you don’t “enjoy” sex you can still enjoy knowing that you are pleasing your husband.
Is it strange that I want to just let my husband do whatever he wants as long as it’s not harmful? I don’t know, I just don’t really have any expectations as a virgin and I don’t like the idea of telling him what to do just because I don’t like it. I want to let him have at it and reap the pleasure of knowing that he got pleasure out of me. I guess what I’m trying to say is I want to mold my life and my desires to his life and his desires in all areas of life, including our sex life.
Know sexually.
Truth Seeker,
It’s not strange to feel that way as you anticipate marriage and look forward to being together with your husband that way. It’s helpful to be aware as well that in addition to getting to know your husband, you will also get to know yourself. You will discover needs and desires you don’t know you have until you are in the actual marriage and situation. Sex and communication are meant to be mutual in contribution and experience, not based on one person’s desires and needs. You’ll both be happier that way.
Why are we only talking about women’s virginity and not men’s? Virginity is a social construct that makes women feel like they are objects men’s pleasure.
Read about the clitoris and explain it to your husband. Although Truth Seeker anticipates she will get pleasure out of her husband’s pleasure (which is true, you probably will), God did not make sex to be one-sided. He created an organ that is 100% for pleasure to be explored with your husband. I think *most* wives would agree that sex is more than just getting pleasure from knowing your husband is satisfied. Most healthy women have sexual needs too, and most husbands give of themselves in order to please their wife, not just themselves. Truth Seeker, I would at least give your husband the opportunity to please you! If you start off by not even acknowledging that women are made to feel physical pleasure during the marital act, it may be hard to convince him of this years later if you change your mind.
That’s sweet, but most men get a real ego boost from knowing they have pleased their wives in that department. He wants you to be a joyful participant who enjoys the experience as much as he does. Assuming he is also a virgin, help the poor guy out.
Virginity is NOT a social construct. It’s a command by God Almighty, our Creator, because He knows that it is what is best for us.
Most husband if not almost all want their wives to enjoy it, KAR. The families you great up in didn’t read The Song of Solomon.
How sad that your husband would not be happy if you got physical pleasure from sex! The female sex organ, the clitoris, has only one purpose, and that is for orgasm. Why would God create womens bodies with this particular function if he did not want women to experience sexual pleasure? Lori is correct, Song of Solomon should be on your reading list!
1 Corinthians 7:4 “The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.”
Sex is for the woman too! And, it’s supposed to be fun.
I do indeed know that God created the female sexual organ, and I trust that He has designed sex to be pleasurable by both. I am appalled and offended that you assume I don’t acknowledge a woman’s pleasure during sex as nothing I said is against that notion. I just don’t want to go into my marriage constantly complaining about sex because I don’t like it as that would be selfish. I want to focus on my man, not myself because that’s what love is. Doesn’t selflessness apply to the marriage bed as well?
The first time isn’t painful for everyone. It wasn’t for me, it wasn’t really enjoyable because of lack of experience, but it certainly wasn’t painful. Every body is different. I thought that was important to point out because I know I was terrified of pain then puzzled when there was none.
Well said Emily Joy! I agree.
You take the time to properly vet her, her family, and her friends. You ask the tough questions, and you listen honestly to the answers, not just the emotional response. You look past her attractiveness that is alluring and logically evaluate her wholly as a person.
My brother couldn’t WAIT to get his hands on his now ex-wife. He was INFATUATED with her and her physical beauty. She was indeed a gorgeous, voluptuous woman that any man would want in their bed. I saw her for who she was early on-manipulative, emotionally immature, a gold-digger obsessed with brand name material items, and a “fake” surface Christian who cared more about her looks than the character of her heart. I felt it wasn’t my place to warn him, because well-I felt it would be disrespecting him as a man. ??♀️ Now he’s dealing with divorce and he’s a physician. Sad all around, but I saw it coming for years. Luckily they have no children!
I was taught this, too-that pleasure was for men only and so I suppressed any desire I had for my husband because it was sinful. My husband thought it was so odd that I had the eager attitude of “I’ll do whatever/whenever/wherever you want!” and I had read many books prior to my wedding night that reinforced this teaching-being joyfully available, but having no needs of my own. After many hours and nights of communication I realized that the teaching and upbringing I received was wrong and my husband expected sex to be mutually pleasurable. Who would have thought?! Not me!
The one downfall of abistance teaching is that people learn shame about sex in general, when that couldn’t be farther from the truth. Inside marriage, it is one of the most beautiful things and a gift to God; a physical creating of your love for one another. Revel in the beauty of your bodies together. Create, together, as much beauty as you can. When your love is as one motion, as one breath, as one creation, you will know what it means to join your flesh, to *make* love.
On a more serious note, unfortunately, I have had sex in and out of love. Nothing compares to love. Do not let anyone pressure you. Know at the same time that love is not everything–as many people above have said, you have to learn how to be physical. You are an expert on you. Your feelings, your reactions through this process are all valid (yes, even the confusing and unexpected ones) and you will get the best results if both of you are honest and open throughout. This is something you are learning together. Collaborate.
My husband makes it his mission to help me enjoy it. And I reciprocate. I bless him and minister to him and he does the same for me. ???
I think you mean KAR. ?
You’re not wrong. The wife should be seeking to pleasure her husband and not seeking her own BUT she shouldn’t deny her husband if he wants to please her as well. Your bodies belong to one another. A wife submits in everything including sex but that doesn’t mean she can’t have pleasure too. So yes your goal should be 100% focusing on his pleasure but if he wants to please you too let him.
Yes. Most husbands care deeply and make sure their wife has an orgasm before he does. So much of my husbands enjoyment is knowing he’s pleasing me as well. Otherwise you’re just being used.
The fact that you grew up with that that mentality is just sad. Of course women are supposed to enjoy sex and have pleasure. It’s a no brained. I suggest you read Songs of Solomon. TRUST me, it’s full of sex and both the man and the women get pleasure from it, the way God intended. The idea that a woman is supposed to endure and not get pleasure from sex is man made. It is not from God.
This is a blog for women, therefore, we’re discussing women’s virginity.
I’m guessing you’re being sarcastic in your closing sentence, judging by the username you chose, but of course we have nothing against a female orgasm (those that do need to read about the clitoris’ function and why God would have created women with one) But since this post is about wedding nights, I’m sure most women would agree that most of us didn’t experience that our first time. I experienced it my first time with my husband,but it was beginners luck ? I didn’t have another one until having “practiced” for a few months.
My husband gets way more pleasure out of our intimacy if I’m enjoying it. I think your husband may be an outlier, which would probably be explained by how you both grew up thinking that sex was pretty much just for the man to enjoy.
I see everyone’s point but we have to recognize that everyone is not the same. There is a lot of variation. Some women (like myself) have NO needs or desires of my own beyond pleasing our husbands and making him a priority in EVERYTHING. So as long as you are willingly available and don’t deny him (and don’t grumble or have a bad attitude), it’s also perfectly fine for sex to be all about him and not you.
I must admit I am deeply saddened by those (not just on this blog) who tell me that I should be focusing on my own pleasure during sex. Of course I realize sex is for pleasure for the woman too since God created it, but if God created sex than that means that I will reap pleasure from engaging with my man and making HIM feel good. My body is not my own, but my husband’s. My pleasure is not my priority, my husband’s is. I don’t understand why people assume I believe that the woman shouldn’t or cannot get pleasure from sex as nothing I said implies that at all. I see I have the answer to my question. I am strange for not having any sexual expectations or desires going into marriage save wanting to please my husband and I am hurt that some have assumed that I blasphemed God’s Word. I apologize for my brash comment, but I hope this gives some understanding to those who have wildly misunderstood and misinterpreted my comment.
It’s still very painful for me 7 1/2 months in and I don’t enjoy it… Looking forward to the days when it is nice and not just for my husband’s pleasure. It hurts more after finding out he started cheating on me with porn 2 months into the marriage.
Vetting a woman doesn’t work either.
A lot of women move into the big cities where they are just another person in the crowd.
I know one man (23) that married a woman (27)
She was in a Catholic school for grades 7-12, then a Catholic college for 4 years for an accounting degree.
The nuns and priests vouched for her.
On the wedding night after sex, the woman came out of bathroom with a tissue with some blood on it, showing him she was a virgin.
Came out years later in the marriage that she had lied and the husband was not even in the top 10 men she had sex with.
With my late wife, 2 preachers and her friends in the small congregation of 30 people who knew her for years vouched for her, they said women don’t come any better than her.
I was (40) and she was (35)
I wasn’t expecting a virgin at that age, only the truth.
She said there was only 1 man before me.
Turns out that there were a LOT of men before me and at least 5-6 while married to me.
So how would a man know a woman is a virgin?
A lie detector test for both her AND him an hour before the wedding?
Hi Lori, I just want to say a huge thank you for creating your blog, and especially for writing about tough topics, such as this one. I wish I would have come across some godly wisdom like this several years ago, although I probably would have been too brainwashed at the time to pay any attention to it.
My mother laughed at me, and told me I was being completely unrealistic when I came to her at age 17 and told her I wanted to wait until marriage to have sex. She actually encouraged me to have sex before marriage, and told me it was fine, as long as we loved each other. I was devastated, because I had assumed that she was a Christian. She took me and my siblings to “church” every week growing up, and still attends each week, although I’m pretty sure she is not truly saved. I also did not have solid, Christian friends who understood my desire to wait, and were having sex with their boyfriends, and so between these two factors, I eventually gave my virginity to my first boyfriend at age 21, and then went through a years-long series of hook-ups and bad relationships before meeting the man I would eventually marry.
My husband and I have been married for almost four years, and neither of us were virgins when we met. However, he had only been with one other woman, whereas I had been with 9 other men. It is painful to even think about now. Even after truly getting saved this past year, and the knowledge that those sins have all been washed away, I still struggle to enjoy sex with my husband, because of my past bad experiences, and the shame that I had associated with sex for so long. My mind will wonder back to those past experiences, and remind me of the dirty things I’ve done. Over the last few months, it has slowly started to get a little better each time, and I am finally starting to enjoy it. But it has been a process of retraining my brain as to how I think about sex, and how God views sex, and constantly reminding myself that those sins have indeed been forgiven. I also have to learn to control my mind each and every time we make love, and it is still difficult sometimes. One thing that I’ve recently found to be helpful is praying before we make love, and asking God to help me to be fully present, with my mind as well as my body.
All that being said, to any young women who are waiting to share this special experience with their future husbands, I applaud you! And I want to encourage you to continue to hold onto this precious gift that you have, no matter who in your life is trying to influence you otherwise. The biggest regret I have in life is not keeping my virginity as a gift for my husband. Once you have sexual experiences with other men, it is difficult to view sex as the beautiful gift that God created it to be, at least in my experience.
Nobody care about men’s virginity anyway. Male virgins are only mention one time in the bible and at the end it. Also virgins men are not really in demand, we never see women writing article saying where are all the male virgins gone? It is men who value virginity the most and this is why the bible emphasize more female virginity because no self-respecting man at that time or even today would put up a lot of works and a huge amount of efforts only to get what someone else got for free.
In Corinthian chapter 7 it said that the husband doesn’t own his owh body but her wife and that they shouldn’t defrauded or deprived each other. If it was just for the men’s pleasure it wouldn’t say that. They both want to get pleasure out of it.
I feel like in this situation, virginity is important but not everything. If she (or he) is truly godly, trust is established, and communication has been open and honest, then good sex will follow. It is possible to be a virgin and not godly. Being godly is correlated with virginity, not caused by it.
I am from Asia. In my country virginity is very important. The groom will ask the bride if she virgin or not because “Man buy the women” by sending dowry as the bride want. I am thankful to keep my virginity until I marriage American man. My husband was thankful because nobody every touch me. God’s way far better than man’s way.
Your husband is missing out on the ABSOLUTE best part of sex… The female orgasm!!!! There is so much I could say about this but guess I will not rub salt in the wound.
I cannot believe that is taught out there in a “Christian” church! Where in the world do you see that in the Bible? NOWHERE!!!!! A Stupid man made rule. What an absolute travesty. Whomever thought you guys this should be strung up and flogged… once a week for the rest of their lives.
Perhaps your comment got misunderstood because people thought it was black and white? It doesn’t have to be your pleasure or his. It can be both! obviously your main focus could be to be pleasuring your husband, but there is nothing wrong with you showing him, either verbally or with his hands, about how to pleasure you. I don’t personally like to verbally tell my husband what I like but I will make little noises or push on him or something just to let him know I like what he’s doing. He really enjoys that.
Haha, Trey. My husband shares your sentiments.
Kar, you said you had no needs or desires of your own. It seems you are simply asexual and that’s ok. However, you need to realise you got very bad teaching about sexuality and generally women are designed to enjoy it physically and emotionally.
Truth Seeker,
It is good of you to want to focus on pleasing your husband. May we all seek to love our spouses more selflessly! If we are to do as Scripture teaches and have the attitude of Christ Jesus, we consider others more important than ourselves. This would go for whoever your future husband would be, which would mean he ideally would seek not to please himself, but to please you. Maybe your marriage will look more like Kar’s (an above commenter) who has never denied her husband but has also never experienced sexual climax for herself in 30 years of marriage. I cannot even begin to imagine a man being okay with that if the situation were reversed, where he had never experienced sexual climax with his wife and was okay with it for 30 years, but I digress. If God has blessed their marriage and upheld Kar in her marital love than that is a reason to praise God and thank Him. I think sometimes we can also misunderstand what “selfish” means, especially women. It might actually be selfish to assume all your husband would want is to have at it with you and do nothing more. I don’t say that at all to discourage you but simply to offer additional thoughts and perspectives to chew on. May God bless you as you continue to seek Him!
I do enjoy making mine happy, and he enjoys making me happy. And he would be upset if I didn’t take pleasure from the experience, and he would feel terrible if I felt pressured into having sex when I genuinely didn’t want to for his benefit.
I appreciate where you are coming from Trey, but it’s really fine! One of the things my husband lives and appreciates about me is that I have no personal expectations, demands, wants or needs when it comes to marriage. It is 100% about him. Is that easy? Not always but I think other wives can train themselves to deny themselves and focus on their husbands and things will be much better. My husband brags that I am so low maintenance which makes our marriage successful. I expect nothing but to serve him. He literally can do whatever he wants and I will give him nothing but love and respect. That is my desire and my focus. So what if sex is focused on him? I am happy he is happy and THAT is all that matters. As Christian wives aren’t we to die to oneself?
I wish my husband had been a virgin. ☹️ I’m guessing any woman who saved herself for her husband would agree.
I am not asexual by a long shot, it’s just that through my upbringing I have been able to tamp down any feelings or desires so I can’t 100% be focused on my husbands needs. I have originally admitted that this is not the norm and I recognize it most people aren’t put up this week. It’s just what works for us and what we’ve been taught. I didn’t say it was right or wrong. But really, in the long run, what does it really matter where I’m concerned? As long as my husband is happy then I’m happy. And that’s all that matters isn’t it?
I am not asexual by a long shot, it’s just that through my upbringing I have been able to tamp down any feelings or desires so I can 100% be focused on my husbands needs. I have originally admitted that this is not the norm and I recognize it most people aren’t put up this week. It’s just what works for us and what we’ve been taught. I didn’t say it was right or wrong. But really, in the long run, what does it really matter where I’m concerned? As long as my husband is happy then I’m happy. And that’s all that matters isn’t it?
I’m sorry , Newlywed.
I wasn’t sure that I wanted to get too wordy or animated here but … consider going to see a doctor for help…
I’m somewhat uncomfortable with seeing the word “submit” while discussing this topic (even though I believe in Biblical wifely submission) in part because I’m afraid that some wives will suffer unnecessarily because they think they need to “submit” and not communicate to their husbands how they actually feel, etc.
Ideally the husband should be very sensitive to his wife’s wishes and needs , giving her honour as to the weaker vessel and giving her the support, encouragement, and whatever help she needs to enjoy this time together…
All I’m saying is make sure you look past a woman’s physical attributes and don’t rush to get married only for sex. Communication prior to marriage is important. Red flags often show their true color. This person you’re marrying is a choice for the rest of your life.
yes, its just not as important to most women as it is to most men.
>I cannot even begin to imagine a man being okay with that if the situation were reversed, where he had never experienced sexual climax with his wife and was okay with it for 30 years
sexual climax is a necessary part of the sexual act for men, not so for women.
I’m sorry to hear that, newlywed. I also agree that you should perhaps check with your doctor to make sure the pain is just from sex being new, and not from something else. I am also sorry to hear about your husband’s problem. Hopefully it was a one-time thing and not a chronic issue. My husband consumed p*** before he was saved and has looked at it once since we were married. He was repentant and told me about it right away and we have moved on. It hurts a lot, but keep praying for your husband. ♥️
@ An interested southern woman
I agree that virginity does not make a person godly.
But when a woman knowingly and purposely lies to her intended husband about being a virgin, is that not considered to be fraud?
Fraud – a person or thing intended to deceive others, typically by unjustifiably claiming or being credited with accomplishments or qualities.
When a woman shows her husband blood on a tissue as proof she was a virgin when she lied to her husband about being a virgin, she destroyed the trust of her husband.
I was not expecting nor demanding a virgin when my late wife lied to me about there being only 1 man before me but she committed intentional fraud by lying about it.
How about simply telling the truth?
A woman just simply saying “I am not a virgin”
That the woman (or man) did things in the past that was sin and they were repentant of them.
Lies, lies, lies everywhere.
How can you build a strong relationship upon lies?
It would be like building a house upon shifting sands, the relationship does not last.
I suppose it’s a bit different with viewing female and male virginity. From what I’ve heard men tend to treat non-virgins as secondhand (read :used) class women, which I don’t like. However, women would like to be the only ones for their husband because they want to see their relationship, including its sexual aspect, as something unique.
Climaxing for women is important as much as many other components of sexual life. Let’s not make it the only necessary thing but definitely let’s not disregard it.
Blair, there is no physical way to tell if a woman is a virgin or not. Same as with men. A “lie detector” test only measures spikes in heart rate or blood pressure in the hopes that it picks up nervousness when someone is telling a lie. It’s not a 100% test. The myth that a woman must bleed and hurt if she’s a virgin is also just that, a myth. Not all women bleed or hurt upon their first time. A hymen is also something not all women have and not the way most people think it is. It’s usually circular (like a scrunchie around the vaginal opening) and can stretch to accommodate a the male organ so many Women’s hymen can very well be “intact”, it’s not a cover-all barrier. If the hymen covers the entire vaginal opening it may actually have to be corrected (removed) surgically by a doctor in order for her to be able to menstruate upon puberty, and these cases are very rare because, again, the hymen is just another stretchy part of of skin AROUND the opening, it doesn’t cover it. If you would like a 100% non fail test to test virginity, before marriage, you will simply have to remain single because there is none.
Also, as a parent, to have a man question my daughter and my authority and parenting of her by him demanding any type of physical exam (which would show his lack of intelligence in regards to human anatomy and research) and/or a lie detector test (essentially doubting my word and hers) would not reflect well on any potential suitor. I understand you have had bad experiences in the past with women, and while it is no fault on you to be betrayed, it is your responsibility to seek God to heal your hurt and distrust. Until then, I would not suggest courting a woman because if you cannot trust her 1 hour before your wedding vows, how can you trust her 1 hour after? That is not a marriage I would encourage any woman I know to enter. May God grant you the grace and peace you seek.
Kar don’t let anyone bring you down, seems like you guys have a great marriage. My question is do you have kids and if so have you guys instill the same beliefs to them?
Well, if you are happy then why pose the original question like it’s a problem??
That’s not true at all. In the old time, fathers had to prove that their daughters were virgins if their husband tried to accuse her to not being one. They had the responsability to protect their daughters virginity and it show how important and valuable virginity was for men because no self-respecting man at that time would marry a non-virgin. If it happen that the women on her wedding night wasn’t found to be a virgin he would sent her back to her father and require a explanation from him. The father had to defend her daughter’s dignity by showing the proof of her virginity in order to prove him wrong. If it wasn’t true the man had to be chastise ny the elders of the city and to pay some amount of money to the father and take her daughter to wife. If it was true then he had the right to divorced her and the woman was brought to the elders of the city and put to death because she had profaned her father by playing the harlot in his house and lied to everyone by pretending that she was a virgin. That was a very serious issue, so to say that virginity is a myth is just a complete lie and non-sense. (Deuteronomy) 22:13 If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her,(Deuteronomy) 22:14 And give occasions of speech against her, and bring up an evil name upon her, and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid: (Deuteronomy) 22:15 Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel’s virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate: (Deuteronomy) 22:16 And the damsel’s father shall say unto the elders, I gave my daughter unto this man to wife, and he hateth her;Deuteronomy 22:17 And, lo, he hath given occasions of speech against her, saying, I found not thy daughter a maid; and yet these are the tokens of my daughter’s virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city.(Deuteronomy) 22:18 And the elders of that city shall take that man and chastise him;Deuteronomy 22:19 And they shall amerce him in an hundred shekels of silver, and give them unto the father of the damsel, because he hath brought up an evil name upon a virgin of Israel: and she shall be his wife; he may not put her away all his days.(Deuteronomy) 22:20 But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:(Deuteronomy) 22:21 Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father’s house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father’s house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.
Kar, I am sorry but I just can’t leave your post alone. I’m deeply moved by what you wrote. I am a Christian too and never have I been taught that I don’t matter, only the husband. You should be his priority as he is yours. Then it works. I just hope that your husband is good to you.
The sex thing… I don’t get this idea either his pleasure or hers? It’s so connected, one drives another. My husband, who is also a Christian, says that it’s a man’s job to awaken his wife sexually and help her develop her potential. Fortunately, it’s a lifelong process.
That’s what I wanted to tell you. Bless you!
There is so much wisdom in your comment, Elizabeth!! Agree 100%
Men’s climax is necessary for the REPRODUCTIVE aspect of sex. However, I don’t think that biblically sex is defined as only the man climaxing . . . I have never heard that before!
God designed sex for BOTH husband and wife to give unto each other, and for it to be bonding, pleasurable, and reproductive. Reducing it to just reproductive and mechanical (man’s climax only) is not the design for sex — that would be part of some dystopian novel, not biblical design. For many couples, the wife’s orgasm is just as necessary!
Honestly, if you don’t feel comfortable just taking her word for it, she’s probably not the woman you want to spend the rest of your life with.
It should be obvious by her demeanour.
But if marrying a virgin is the absolutely most important thing to you (general “you” not personal you) it’s probably best you remain single, as there is no way of knowing for sure, and even a tiny element of doubt sneaking in can destroy your marriage.
I am married to a man with extreme trust issues. If marrying a virgin is so important that you will doubt her word even a tiny little bit and always wonder, that WILL cause problems in your marriage.
Either find a woman you love and accept her as she is, virgin or not, or stay single. Worrying over whether or not she was really a virgin will only destroy you both.
You can not build a strong relationship upon lies. It’s impossible. And if she lies about one thing, she will likely lie about other things, too.
I agree Isadora!
I gave my virginity to my husband, but he couldn’t give me the same gift. He certainly wasn’t a “player” (I wouldn’t have married him if he was) but it would have been special to learn everything together.
It disgusts me when I see me sleeping around, and encouraging other men to do so, while slamming all women who aren’t virgins.
Ideally, both men AND women should be virgins.
So imagine then, a wife arousing her husband up until a certain point…. and then just walking away. Leaving him unsatisfied, unfinished, and frustrated. That wouldn’t be acceptable, would it?
It’s exactly the same thing.
With a bit of effort, women can climax too, instead of just being content that they pleased their husband.
God created us with a clitoris for only one reason. Why would any man, or woman, want to disregard that?
I have been thinking about this. I think you’re using a power play. After 30 years, your husband doesn’t know you at all because you have withheld all thoughts, feelings, desires, emotions, everything. He has no idea what you think, feel or desire. You pretend you have no desires or feelings. You have robbed him. That makes you powerful, not submissive. He can literally do anything and you greet it with love and respect? ANYTHING? I don’t believe you.
I know it is late to comment but I think that this is an important topic.
Today,I got a mail from change.org that was asking me to sign a petition about teaching young kids and young adults about sexual consent to “curb sexual violence” and all that…which is just another leftist baloney.
Why is it a baloney,before you label me a misogynist…let me make me it clear.
.
It is because this notion jumps over the fact that it is okay to have pre-marital sex and directly brings to attention of young adults my age to pre-requisites of having sex which makes everyone subconciously accept that pre-marital sex is ok and immediately jump on the next level of achieving sex outside of marriage.
No,pre-marital sex is wrong.Simple.?
Petitions like this must be challenged at the grass roots level itself.
I believe this issue of pre-marital sex is very serious.It literally clouds the judgement of the other party and also makes sex the centre of gravity of that relationship instead of God,which is the perfect way I believe.
God literally gave us a book about his wisdom and the perfect way for romantic relationships.
Okay,you don’t believe in God!?
Read Sex and Culture by J.D.Unwin.
It is his entire life’s work.
And no,that Sex At Dawn book by Christopher Ryan,which many liberals use to prove their point,is just theory.
More like a compelling fiction because that is what many people’s itchy ears want to hear.
Unless you built a time machine,no one knows how the pre-historic man lived.
.
Second of all if you introspect deeply,this sounds as if a rapist cares the victim’s sexual consent before he does that heinious crime.
I do NOT condone rape or any other form of sexual violence against either gender.
Bottom line-issues like such are nonsense because sex is for within the holiness and sanctity of marriage only,a union of a two souls who are smart enough to not deny each other of their bodies.
Thank You.
He hasn’t stopped watching yet – Said he would stop when we got married and didn’t. When I found out he said he would stop and he watched again two weeks later. I thought he had been good since then (mid-August) because we installed covenant eyes, but apparently he’s just been masturbating to intagram girls and anything he finds on the interet. Last week he figured out how to get around Covenant Eyes and watched porn on his playstation.
It’s been very hard and I feel so worthless.
Another thing about the hymen: since women are more active these days than ever before in history, as in now it’s deemed socially acceptable for women to be in sports, etc, in a lot of cases the hymen has already “broken” from before mentioned activities and will not bleed the first time you have sex. That was the case for me. If my husband had demanded that I show him a bloody tissue as proof of my virginity, I would not have been able to provide it.
If a woman were to do that to her husband intentionally, I’m sure every guy on this blog would say she was sinning. If my husband climaxes before me while we’re having sex, he does the best he can to help me reach climax as well. Sometimes I tell him don’t bother because I don’t care that much ? but he always tries hard.
Yes, men can be pretty hypocritical in this department, even Christian men. Like darly said above, nobody cares about men’s virginity. . . spoken as a man, I guess.
My husband wasn’t a player either. He was in a long-term relationship with his girlfriend and they were planning to get married so they figured it didn’t matter if they didn’t wait. ☹️ My husband has said that is the biggest regret of his life.
Sorry, but there’s an incredible amount of contradiction. I thought women aren’t supposed to be ruled by their feelings. Submission is agreeableness. KAR is not argumentative, is joyfully available, and doesn’t seem like she stresses her husband with menial things while he’s busy providing. She said her husband appreciates how low maintenance she is…so which it? She’s powerful because she doesn’t inconvenience him, yet she’s also not submissive for the same reason?Sometimes I really don’t understand the correct role for women in marriage, and this is one example of the many contradictions.
@ Elizabeth
If you remember a post of mine about a month ago
I said I was done looking for a wife.
I still stand by that now
It is not about my hurt and distrust
Its about experiencing, seeing and hearing.
In the years of being a widower
I see NO DIFFERENCE between “christian” women and non Christian women.
I am not against biblical marriage
But from what I see, hear and experience
Satan has such a firm grip on most women (not all)
that it is not worth me wasting time dealing with all the feminism
I refuse to play their game
What an interesting blog and comments. I would say, read good Christian books such as “Intended for pleasure” etc. “I know there are some bad “Christian” books out there too.. But we learned as much as we could about sex before we got married, in books, and I was blessed to have good Christian women I could have conversations with about it as well, and we had books along on the honeymoon that we could go to for answers. My husband just used his fingers first to gently get it open, such a special experience for both of us.. Then we waited till the next day to have actual intercourse. Our wedding night and honeymoon was such a sweet, blessed and fun time of discovering sex together. We’ve Been married for a year and a half and it just keeps getting better for both of us! My dear husband loves to pleasure me and finds almost as much joy and satisfaction in my orgasms, than his own. Sex is a wonderful gift from God, for both man and woman to enjoy! Oh, and I would like to add, as with anything else in marriage, communication is key! I hope this is helpful to someone..
Isadora says:
“Another thing about the hymen: since women are more active these days than ever before in history, as in now it’s deemed socially acceptable for women to be in sports, etc, in a lot of cases the hymen has already “broken” from before mentioned activities and will not bleed the first time you have sex.”
Many women are destroying their own hymen that God gave them, just so they could do sports? Or how about the feminine products that are inserted inside the body?
For the woman’s convenience so that a woman can go out to a job, sports and other activities?
Socially acceptable for it nowadays?
Nowadays it is socially acceptable for murder of babies, for homosexuality of men and women, for “transgender” and even pedophile is quickly becoming socially acceptable.
Instead of asking if it is socially acceptable, maybe the important question is if it is God acceptable????
Also from my above post about it being fraud when those women claimed to be something they weren’t, I notice that the sin of fraud is being willfully ignored. Both of those women did knowingly commit fraud to their husband to be.
With my late wife, I never expected her to be a virgin at age 35. I never even asked about her past sex life as I figured that was before me, and it was between her and God.
She is the one that brought the subject up and insisted to tell me that there had only been 1 man before me.
So in lying, she committed fraud to me by misrepresenting what she was.
The same as that other woman committed fraud by saying she was a virgin and even producing fake evidence.
I’m not sure that “powerplay” is the right word. That’s not how I understand what Kar is saying, anyway. I do think it’s a bit sad that she has not allowed her husband to truly get to know her, and who she is, what she truly likes etc.
But it does seem like she is happy that way.
My marriage is often not happy, so I know what I would prefer.
Maybe it’s just not important to Kar or her husband for Kar’s personality to shine through? If he cherishes her and treats her well…. Isn’t that what every woman wants?
I think one thing that’s being mistaken here (or maybe I’ve just been overwhelmingly blessed in the husband department!), is the notion being floated that pleasure is a zero sum game, or that a woman’s awareness of her own body necessarily means that she isn’t focused on her husband’s enjoyment.
I don’t really *get* that. Part of the…enjoyment, is wrapped up in reacting to your spouses enjoyment. A husband’s excitement is heightened by knowing he wife is experiencing pleasure..
Medial and physical limitations area real thing, so if a woman can’t go there, then she can’t and there’s nothing wrong with being solely husband focused. However, I don’t know how a woman could expect to have fulfilling sex with her husband without any awareness of how the moment is affecting her own body. 99 out of 100 men will be *just fine* without his wife hyper-focusing on his pleasure.
Conversely, probably 90 out of 100 men would be pretty disappointed to think their wife isn’t experiencing pleasure in their time together. It’s like half of the point of it all is being missed. Maybe there are men who don’t care at all or who think there’s something wrong with their wife being sexual, but I suspect they area distinct minority. But again, that’s just my experience.
As for advice, the best advice I have to offer is for new brides not to be dismayed by the awkwardness or any painfulness of that first night. Remember that you have all the time in the world to figure out the nuts and bolts of sex. People have actually been doing that for 7000 years now. Most without any advice at all. It’s why the human race continues…
Blair, My point was that there are perfectly acceptable reasons for a woman not to bleed on her first time because her hymen might already be broken. I used the term socially acceptable only because women did not play hardcore sports (as far as I’m aware) in Bible times and therefore it would be pretty standard to bleed the first time sex happened. Yes, sometimes I’m going to use that argument to argue for things that clearly aren’t biblical, like women being pastors, but that’s not what we’re talking about.
As far as women playing sports today and what kind of feminine hygiene products people want to use, that’s a whole different topic. you may want to consider finding something else to do with your spare time then read a women’s blog.
Whoops, I had a typo in my last comment. It’s supposed to say women may use that argument for women pastors, not that I use it. Totally against women pastors!
Newlywed, I am so so sorry. That is such a hard thing to go through. ?Unfortunately, p*** consumption is an addiction. I don’t know whether your husband had good intentions about stopping or whether he didn’t plan to at all, but I’m guessing you realize by now that the wedding should not have happened while he had a p*** problem. And it’s not your fault,though I know it’s hard to not feel worthless. It’s an addiction and it has nothing to do with you. We women in the real world can’t compete with what is depicted in the movies or photos. I’ll be praying for you ♥️♥️♥️ I would encourage you to seek out a trustworthy older woman to talk with.
Agree, especially with your last sentence Isadora!
Porn is an addiction just like anything else, and it can be very, very hard to stop. Lori wrote about this topic a while ago – from memory, she shared the story of a woman whose husband had a porn addiction and I think she shared the link to the blog. It was a very good post. I would encourage you to do a search on this blog and see if you can find it because I think you will find it useful.
You are not seriously suggesting that tampon use is sinful, are you?
Many ancient cultures have used tampon-alternatives forever. Maori women used to use moss. Ancient Egyptian women used softened papyrus. Some cultures used sea sponges.
God is concerned with our hearts. I truly do not believe He is going to be worried about how we choose to take care of our bodies during menstruation but He is going to care a great deal about the state of our heart.
KAK, it depends. Does he even know that she has literally withheld her entire personality, feelings, thoughts, ideas for 30 years? Or does he think he knows her. This is tragic. It really is.
There was a comment above about teaching abstinence and the baggage of sexual shame. As a woman myself, the weaker vessel, and who grew up learning to be 100% responsible for modesty so men wouldn’t be tempted, this is something I struggle with. You hide your body away and suppress any form of “burning” for years and years until marriage and then BAM! The wedding night you’re expected to do a complete 360, show off your body and be completely comfortable with any sort of activity. It’s difficult to express interest and desires to my husband as it was touted prior to marriage as whore-ish behavior or how “easy” women act. Submissiveness in the bedroom is happily agreeing to my husband’s wants and needs, and I don’t like being a needy, nagging woman.
Maybe this is why some men are in sexless or unfulfilling marriages? Because many women were never taught that sex is GOOD and pleasing to God within marriage, just that their bodies will forever be a source of sin and temptation. Just my thoughts.
Isn’t being asexual a sin? I have heard that asexual is now considered to be part of LGBTQ!
Like maybe if one is asexual but still has sex normally in a marriage between a man and a woman of course, then it is fine I think. Or if one is celibate in service to God. But other than that asexual people are sinning in my opinion.
It’s a mistake to assume that homologous organs must have (in both sexes) useful reason for existing. Men have nipples because of their utility to women and the embryonic pathway to nipple development builds precursors in all human babies, male and female, enabling their function later in females but leaving them small and functionless in males. The presence of male nipples is a genetic architectural by-product of nipples in females. God’s design is a common to both men and women, with pre-programmed (by God) sex differentiation producing something analogous to vestigial organs – only sex specific.
The same goes for the clitoris which is a sort of non-functioning penis (men with a mutation that causes severe 5α-reductase and thus DHT deficiency have, for all practical purposes, a clitoris not a penis). “There are those that are born eunuchs….”
Women have a clitoris (with lots of nerve endings) because men have a penis which is necessary to reproduction in men. The simplest, path of least resistance design is the most elegant solution evident in God’s design.
Note that the clitoris is decidedly away from the site for reproduction.
Casey — you 100% hit the nail on the head. Thsi was taught to my husband and me from our families/church/Christian books etc. I readily agree this isn’t everyone’s experience and I’ve said that I don’t necessarily think it’s right or the only way. But (maybe fortunately??) since both my husband and i came into marriage with this teaching, this was how our relationship works. As I posted earlier, my husband also wanted an unemotional, practical wife. My whole point is, there is a lot of variation from one marriage to another.
What are these women afraid of that they would go to such lengths to not reveal the true state of their virginity? I am not excusing fraud and deceit in anyone. Sometimes it is helpful though to try and find a reason to have compassion on a person. Anger and distrust cloud our judgement. So does fear. Maybe she FEARS rejection? She does not TRUST a man to truly love the real her? This seems to be a legitimate fear though if all men are like Blair, but they are not. If you cannot trust ANY women, Blair, that is not on all women, that is a wound in own your heart that needs healing. Relationships can be very damaging to our hearts, yet God is he healer of broken hearts. In Christ we are forgiven of our own sins, and also healed from the hurts that others’ sins have caused us.
I read him (?) as suggesting that there’s value to evidence of virginity. Presumably value to men and women.
And also, that doing things that destroy this evidence and aren’t typical of biblical femininity (e.g. Taekwondo and the use of the type of feminine products necessitated by careers) is unwise. A little dicey on the latter since guys don’t know much about feminine hygiene methods and shouldn’t care much about the details of it but I understand his point and didn’t read him as saying specific feminine hygiene methods are sinful.
Virgins should not use tampons. PERIOD.
They should also not participate in activities that might damage their hymens. They should do everything they can to protect it for their wedding night. God put the hymen there for a reason and the Old Testament explains why and how important it is.
Only feminists and others who are deceived (by feminist talking points) try and downplay it’s relevance.
Isadora,
You might want to find something else to do than spew a bunch of feminist talking points on a Christian blog.
“you may want to consider finding something else to do with your spare time then read a women’s blog.”
Some of the women posting comments above also read and post on Christian men’s websites.
Trey – Not all females are born with a hymen. About 10% of females have no hymen at birth at all, and another 10-15% have only a partial hymen. Generally, the blood on the sheets for a virgin’s first time, is from tearing inside the vagina, which is extremely common for the first time, even if a girl uses tampons. It’s not from the hymen tearing. Any gynaecologist will tell you this.
VIRGINITY is important, absolutely. But the lack of a hymen is not really anything to do with whether or not a woman is a virgin. Virginity is about purity – a heart issue.
Historically, and I’m going way back to ancient cultures, women menstruated far less frequently than they do now. They started menstruating much later (thanks artificial hormones everywhere from plastic to food!), they breastfed babies/children far longer, and they were pregnant a lot more, as birth control back then wasn’t reliable. Underwear wasn’t invented, so it was much simpler for women to stem the flow internally rather than trying to catch it externally, which required rigging up complicated ties etc. I gave some examples in a previous comment about what ancient women used.
I’m not sure what careers necessitate an internal method for menstrual blood collection? I mean, aside from a swimmer or lifeguard, etc.
Women choose menstrual products that they find most comfortable. All of them need to be changed frequently, so none of them are more suited to a career than any other.
You are right – men really are best leaving menstrual issues up to women.
I’m also a bit disturbed that men who have no clue are weighing in on this, suggesting that women can ruin their virginity by using certain menstrual products and leading an active, healthy life. This is so wrong!! Young women reading this false viewpoint may end up figuring there’s no point trying to stay pure for their future husbands if men consider them to be “ruined” anyway – and that is so far from the truth!!
I’ll say it again, louder, for those young women in the back who need to hear it: VIRGINITY IS A PURITY OF HEART ISSUE AND NOT A MENSTRUATION/ACTIVE LIFE ISSUE!! Keep on using tampons and menstrual cups if they work for you. Keep on being active – it’s healthy!! And keep your heart pure and save your first sexual experience for your husband.
Trey,
What feminist talking points are you referring to?
I have no problem with men commenting on women’s blogs in general and vice versa. In this case, things he was bringing up was off topic and was counterproductive to the conversation.
To address your previous comment Blair, no I do not keep up with your comments on other posts but I think it’s a very wise decision that you took to cease looking for a wife at this time, or indefinitely until your issues with trusting women are resolved. I pray you find peace and wisdom as well clarity in regards for what you seek.
Again, there is no sure way to prove a woman is a virgin. Even demanding an “intact” hymen is futile. I’ll reiterate that the hymen is NOT a barrier that is “broken through”, but rather just a thinner layer of extra skin that surrounds in a circular pattern around the vaginal opening. Having intercourse with a average size penis, if a woman is well lubricated, will not at all damage the hymen because it is part of the stretchy vaginal opening. So, yes, you can definitely have a woman with an “intact” hymen that has had intercourse with numerous men. And you can have a woman who has never in her life been touched by a man with a hymen that could be ever so slightly torn, and that’s only if it covered a large portion of the vaginal opening which is also not common at all.
Virginity is not a myth but the idea that you can have 100% correct physical proof is definitely a myth (@ Daryl up above). To think so is just an outdated wivestale and again, would show complete ignorance of the female anatomy. I was previously a nurse and my husband is a physician and if any suitor coming to our daughter would suggest such a thing as demanding an intact hymen would get a laugh and a door slammed in his face. Virginity is defined by being untouched sexually by others until you give that gift to your spouse, hymen or no hymen. Virginity does not equal hymen. Good grief.
Before I even entertain the laughable idea of tampons being sinful, anyone feel the liberty to list some Biblical evidence that says so first before going into those mind gymnastics.
@Daryl- whether “no one cares if a man is a virgin” is not up for debate because it matters to God that newlyweds are virgins. If you are a Christian, we follow God’s standards as clearly laid out in the Bible, not what the popular culture thinks. I would also reread my 1st comment because I think you completely misunderstood it.
Yes I feel like the post was about something nice and bringing up a peripherally related (and sensitive) topics kinda wrecked it. But that’s the nature of internet discussion threads I guess. And yeah it’s weird for guys to discuss VERY female topics like that. But I assume if it were too far off topic the author would have not approved the comments – she doesn’t approve all of them.
I think this is what these guys are saying. According to the author of the blog, virginity has value to men (it does). Therefore, signs/proof of virginity also have value (to men AND to women) and it follows that it is wise to preserve these signs/proof to the extent that it is possible.
They are relating participation in contact sports and use of tampons (as opposed to other methods like pads I guess??) to both feminism and loss of signs/proof of female virginity. So, I assume this is what he means by “feminist talking points” (which I don’t think you’ve explicity made).
Participation in e.g. female kick boxing is feminist. I have no idea about the convenience (for careerist women) of using tampons vs. say pads which I assume would be more acceptable for stay at home women??. Like I said above, dicey on this – I don’t know the workings of these things (being a guy -usually not real interested). Kinda weird as a guy to discuss this.
@ Isadora and KAK
“Yes, men can be pretty hypocritical in this department, even Christian men. Like darly said above, nobody cares about men’s virginity. . . spoken as a man, I guess.”
The man IS hypocritical if he suggests his lack of virginity isn’t sinful but his wives’ is sinful – the very definition of hypocrisy the Lord warned of.
That said, men have strong biological reasons to place high value on virginity. The immediate consequences of female unchastity are much greater.
Women do not (generally) value virginity in men. We (nice Christian men and women) can complain they should but they don’t. Quite the opposite. Men who are sexually promiscuous are generally more attractive to women – they are seen by women as being vetted by other women and obviously desirable having been chosen for sex by many women. Unfortunately, modern women (in general) reward promiscuous males – not real surprising that male behavior that is rewarded with love and sex will continue.
“All of them need to be changed frequently, so none of them are more suited to a career than any other.”
I assumed the opposite is what he was getting at – of course I had no idea one way or another and didn’t give an opinion. I have little interest in the mechanics of hygiene products or any reason to assume I have an informed opinion on the mechanics of stuff I don’t have a lot of interest in and don’t experience.
The broader point someone made was interesting. If virginity is valuable to men, then it follows that signs of virginity have some value to both men and to women and there is wisdom in preserving them when you can.
“suggesting that women can ruin their virginity by using certain menstrual products and leading an active, healthy life.”
I assume he was referring to practices that destroy the SIGNS of virginity so the reference was to this, not to being made “not a virgin” by feminine products or athletics, a position I’ve never seen anyone take.
There was extensive discussion above about God’s purpose for the clitoris (not mentioned in the Bible as far as I know) so I assume there is some parallel teaching about God’s purpose for the hymen – suggested fairly directly in the Bible.
I also don’t know if athletics refers to walking a mile or rigorous Mixed Martial Arts. It’s not the details of practices but the broader point about value in preservation of signs/indications that caught my eye in the comments. Of course, this shouldn’t lead to “oh no I’m ruined” because she falls down running or picks the wrong product or whatever.
I agree somewhat about the heart – specifically we distinguish between moral virginity and bodily integrity both of which can coexist or you can have one and not the other (not have bodily integrity through no fault of your own but have moral integrity or having bodily integrity but an impure heart).
https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15458a.htm
“Virginity is not a myth but the idea that you can have 100% correct physical proof is definitely a myth (@ Daryl up above).”
“Darly” (sp?) didn’t say you could have 100% proof. No one did. He cited the Biblical description of evidence. To Christians, the Bible isn’t “outdated wivestale.”
It is generally the case that women bleed on first intercourse and that it was long used as evidence of virginity (not just in biblical times and not just by Western people). Rarely is anything “100%.” If such exceptions were all that frequent, the Israelites (or any society for that matter) would not have regarded it the way they did.
“Before I even entertain the laughable idea of tampons being sinful…”
I keep pointing out that no one said that.
This website’s position is that virginity has value to men (“men prefer debt free……”). It follows that signs/evidence of virginity has value too. Almost no one, men or women, Christian or heathen, embraces chastity anymore. If men are expected to disregard any consideration of evidence, then (if female virginity is again reemphasized as it used to be) many women will simply lie. Parents will go along with it – “of course my daughter wouldn’t…”.
KAK,
According to Kurman, Robert J., ed. (2002). Blaustein’s Pathology of the Female Genital Tract (5th edition ed.). New York: Springer-Verlag. p. 160. “In about 1 in 2,000 females, the hymen does not develop at all.”
1 in 2000 is 0.05%, that is a far cry from 10%.
I am not sure why you are referencing how ancient cultures did things. As Christians, how ancient (pagan) cultures did things are of little concern to us. We are only concerned with how God’s people did things and if a Jewish girl did not bleed on her wedding night it could mean her death so you can bet hat she did everything in her power to preserve her hymen intact. Also, how women handle their flow once they are married is not the issue either, just virgins.
I know that (because of feminism) our society has changed a lot over the past 100 years and none of it has been for the better. How our society wants to minimize (or dismiss all together) the importance of a woman’s virginity is NOT a good thing. I cannot say whether this was common or not but my mother told me that before she got married, her father took her to a doctor to have her examined and a report signed by the doctor testifying to her virginity was given to her finance. My grandfather was not some religious zealot, just a run of the mill Southern Baptist deacon. This is how serious this issue was just two generations ago.
The problem today is that women who make poor decisions want to try and pretend that it didn’t happen and not have to suffer the consequences of their poor choices and it’s the unsuspecting men who become their husbands and the children that follow that end up suffering the most from their irresponsibility and lies.
I do not think that it is helpful or productive for women on here trying to use the “exceptions to prove the rule” in an attempt to minimize the importance of a hymen and having proof of ones virginity upon marriage. That is what the feminists are doing to try and give women cover for why they might not bleed on their wedding nights.
Also, your statement: “Virginity is about purity – a heart issue.” The penetration of a woman’s vagina is a physical issue. It certainly has an effect on the heart but it is a physical issue first and foremost.
Elizabeth,
I would think as a nurse you would know that there are many different types of hymens, not just the type you describe as “just a thinner layer of extra skin that surrounds in a circular pattern around the vaginal opening” as illustrated in this picture. http://persephonemagazine.com/2011/02/sexual-mythbusters-vol-2-all-hymens-are-created-equal/hymens/
Only one or (doubtful) two of those could be penetrated with the “averaged size penis” and not take damage. The rest would certainly take damage or be utterly destroyed with a single insertion.
Also, if hymens routinely did not take damage with “average” intercourse, then why don’t sexually active women (without children) have them and why do so many women lose them to things like riding horses, sports and tampon (much smaller than the average penis) use?
Which is it, something that can easily be damaged form many routine activities that a young girl might be involved in these days or something so durable that it can easily survive intercourse with the “average penis”?
Again with the partial truths and trying to use the exceptions to prove a rule.
Thanks for your reply, B Gordon. I think because I used the words “socially acceptable”, Trey assumed I was making the argument that it was okay for women to be in sports or to use certain feminine hygiene products, when I really wasn’t discussing the morality of those things at all, merely using it as an illustration as why a woman may not bleed her first time. As I told Blair above, those things are a whole other topic.
Actually, it’s little girls’ bodies they mutilate (in my previous comment about female genital mutilation) not women’s bodies.
B. Gordon – “Men who are sexually promiscuous are generally more attractive to women”
This is true. Sad, but true. Even among young Christian women, I’ve heard the term “loser” bandied about in regard to men who have remained pure in accordance with God’s commands.
Good comment Trey.
You will get many negative female reactions by suggesting men prefer virgins AND you will get many negative female reactions (by the tiny subset of women who affirm the value of female virginity) by suggesting the evidence of physical integrity should be maintained. I have sympathy for some of these reactions and no sympathy for others.
1. Some women react because of fear that the lack of virginity (or evidence thereof) will cause women (them, their daughters, women in general) to be considered damaged goods, worthless, unmarriageable, etc. I am sympathetic towards this reaction and feel compassion.
2. Some women react negatively because of the implication that pre-marital sex given to influence men’s behavior and choices is off the table (if virginity and/or evidence is important). Note sex is one of the greatest influences on men’s behavior. I am not sympathetic to this reason.
3. Some women react negatively because fornication with attractive men is fun and again this would be off-the-table. I am not sympathetic to this reason.
4. Some women react negatively because fornication for the reasons given in 2 & 3 would (if virginity matters) lower their marriage value to men. In other words, contra the 70’s feminist promise, they wouldn’t be able to have it all. Again, not sympathetic to this reason.
So I think the best position is that virginity and physical bodily integrity should be maintained. Boys should be taught that non-virgins aren’t irredeemable harlots and that moral virginity (see link I posted in the other comment) can exist without bodily integrity but that it is not the norm.
IMO, another good comment, Trey.
Also, note that it was mentioned above that the hymen isn’t the only source of vaginal bleeding during initial intercourse . Bleeding is the norm.
One of the ladies (Isabela?) mentioned physical activity to maintain a healthy body. I doubt reasonable activity causes loss of evidence of virginity. This information was standard in 1980s and 90’s health textbooks* but it was indicated that rigorous contact sports (not necessary for basic health and fitness) were what would cause this. So the “we-can’t-even-exercise?”** objection seems out of place.
*It’s funny – back then there was still recent memory of when virginity mattered so this was probably included as feminist objection/cover. Now, no one thinks virginity matters so secular authorities don’t even have to use this objection/cover.
@B.Gordon
“Boys should be taught that non-virgins aren’t irredeemable harlots and that moral virginity (see link I posted in the other comment) can exist without bodily integrity but that it is not the norm.”
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So what!?
Debate all this time and come back to that satanic feminist brainwashing that absolute virginity doesn’t matter and it is okay to compromise for a non-virgin!??
I mean it is very much important to me though.No rationalizations or excuses for presence of consensual non-virginity.
I am 20 and this issue has been bothering me lately.
Also,”moral virginity can exist without bodily intrgrity”….do you mean to say that a woman can be a virgin,without the presence of the hymen but she is not the norm,but the exception!?
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Furthermore,it is laughable people today give this “horse riding” example to compensate for their absence of virginity as if the average girl goes on horse riding everyday.
For most of history,no man would take this absurd reason and here we are in the modern world,shaming men for having a standard that was a pre-requisite since the civilization began.
But it is okay.In an socially immoral and culturally degenerating world,it is nothing to be surprised about.
Hope to get your reply soon.?
I mean women can be raped, including as little girls. Moral virginity can be present without bodily integrity.
I also mean that Christians shouldn’t see non-virgins (including former fornicators) as irredeemable harlots, but as sisters in Christ. You are not obligated to marry any woman and are welcome to have whatever standard you want (e.g. virginity) and should not be shamed for that standard. Marring a former fornicator (male or female) puts you at increased risk of being the victim of adultery.
“I mean women can be raped, including as little girls. Moral virginity can be present without bodily integrity.”
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Oh yes.Rape victims are technically virgins I believe since the act was against her consent.That is why I even wrote “presence of consensual non-virginity” above.
“I also mean that Christians shouldn’t see non-virgins (including former fornicators) as irredeemable harlots, but as sisters in Christ.”
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Yup I agree with that.
“You are not obligated to marry any woman and are welcome to have whatever standard you want (e.g. virginity) and should not be shamed for that standard. Marring a former fornicator (male or female) puts you at increased risk of being the victim of adultery.”
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Yes,now we have come to the main point of discussion.Glad you precisely put this into perspective.
God,where do I start.
“Not obligated to marry..” is somewhat vague since Conservatives(irrespective of religious faith) are judged,bashed,ridiculed heavily for this standard.This topic is so sensitive that this post itself garnered over a 100 comments…you don’t get to see that on other posts.
How can we forget the infamous “Men Prefer Debt-Free Virgins Without Tattoos” post.I really feel sorry for Mrs.Lori Alexander for whatever uproar and agony she had to go through.
But,she said this and it had an uproar which means it is true.??
I would even go on to say that “Men SHOULD WANT Debt-Free Virgins Without Tattoos”.
And by virgins I mean absolute virgins.
Modern people are really cunning by getting away with oral sex,anal sex…heck…even hymen reconstruction surgery and then have the audacity to cry “millionaire prince-charming or nothing!”
Sex is a greatest drive in humans and every culture made strict regulations to keep it in check.
Every sane man I believe values virginity,especially conservative men like me,and we are being riduculed for it.
But it is understandabke,given the immoral social fabric of the modern world.
Thank You for your time.
Thank you for that. I’ve seen too many articles where the “woman” was encouraged to be a virgin and men were given a pass. I am disappointed by the number of so called “Christian” men who are sexually active with many women before marriage and it is always women who are held accountable but not men. Perhaps our men need to be reminded they have a responsibility to be chaste and present themselves as virgins on their wedding night.
How would a woman know if a man is a virgin?
Oh, Dear….God created our bodies to enjoy sex with our husbands. It is biblical and you should expect that you enjoy sex as well with an orgasm
Hey Amy…how are you feeling today!?
First of all I would like to welcome you this wonderful blog of Godly wisdom(I assume you might be new here ?)and thank you for replying.
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Now,I fully agree with you.
Finding a man’s virginity is as diffiuclt as finding a woman’s virginity.
It is just that a higher number of men(99.99% of men if we take since our civilization began) value,expect and want absolute virginity and chastity in their future wives.
I do not mean that women cannot value, expect and want absolute virginity in their future husbands….it is just that it is more common in men.
I have seen women also wanting virgin husbands and that is the best way to do the matrimonial union I believe.?
Don’t let the modern immoral world convince you into their immoral ways.
When in bed,after all the tiring hours of dealing with the whole world,when you lay in bed with your spouse and are at an extremely intimate state where not only the two bodies are naked but the two souls as well and you have no worries at the back of your mind-that the man with whom you are in this heightened state of intimacy-that no one has seen his beautiful,tender and vulnerable side other than you.
This vulnerable and peaceful side is just for you both…for life.
Trust me,there would be no better satisfaction and feeling in this entire world.
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In case of determining a man’s virginity,I believe even he will be shy and hesitant to take off his clothes and will ejaculate within seconds.
I know a lot of modern men,like modern women,have thier promiscuous ways and then when they know that by doing this they won’t land a family oriented man/family oriented woman…they change their ways.
I have seen girls and women say that “I thought if I had sex then he will stay!”
NO.JUST NO.
Teach young girls and women that no good and family oriented man would want to take your maidenhead as your boyfriend.
If he is a family oriented man then he himself will say it upfront that they will wait until marriage.
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Oh yes,sorry I forgot.There are many instances where men say that women themselves do not value virginity in men but honestly,it is women like you that prevent me from changing my mind and it is great.?
I pray for you that God blesses you with what you wish and desire.
All The Best and Have A Great Day ahead.
You can’t. God didn’t give men a visual indication of virginity. He made men and women different.
Women have always been the gatekeepers of sex.
As a group, women do not incentivize virginity in men because women do not generally value virginity in men. This is for biological reasons that should be obvious.
You do not see women complaining about the lack of virgin men except when it is in a context where women are decrying the “double standard” – “how come virginity matters for us but not for men?” Because women don’t (generally) place much value on male virginity (again for biological reasons which should be obvious).
“Women have always been the gatekeepers of sex.”
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I completely agree with that.
“As a group, women do not incentivize virginity in men because women do not generally value virginity in men. This is for biological reasons that should be obvious.”
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Yup…not as a whole but you do know that exceptions exist.But yes,when asked on the issue of virginity rarely I have seen a female expect a male virgin as her mate.
But there are exceptions.
“You do not see women complaining about the lack of virgin men except when it is in a context where women are decrying the “double standard” – “how come virginity matters for us but not for men?” Because women don’t (generally) place much value on male virginity (again for biological reasons which should be obvious).”
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Honestly,I hate that rubbish when it comes from entitled feminists.
But if a girl/woman respectfully and politely asks such a question,then I believe she deserves to know.
If she is concerned about her potential husband’s virginity,there is nothing wrong with that.
But in case of entitled feminists,they should be shunned and not at all entertained.
I think women preferring virgin men would be a GREAT thing. I’m all for it. They just don’t.