Was This Truly Marital Rape?
Last April, I made a video called Should Wives Have Sex With Their Husbands When They Don’t Feel Like It? It was viewed by many, and many were very angry with me and accused me of promoting marital rape because a woman wrote to me and told me her husband asked to have sex with her one night. She told him no but found him having sex with her in the middle of the night. She asked if this was considered marital rape.
I told her that no, this wasn’t considered marital rape. Marital rape is when a husband forces himself upon his wife on a frequent basis while drunk or high on drugs or is simply an abusive, mean man. If there is true marital rape, there is physical abuse that comes with it. Every woman who has told me that they were raped by their husbands, also told me that they were physically abused by their husbands. In this case, the authorities need to be called and the wife needs to be protected from her physically abusive husband.
In the case I mentioned in the video, this wasn’t marital rape. Her husband doesn’t physically abuse her. He woke up in the middle of the night (maybe he wasn’t even fully awake, for all we know) and began having sex with his wife. What does this mean? Was he having full on intercourse with her or was he having foreplay with her? We don’t know. She didn’t tell me. If he was having full on intercourse with her, she must be a very deep sleeper but even if he was, I would never consider this marital rape.
Let’s say I told her that yes, this was marital rape. Then she would report it to the police in the morning. Her husband may be put in jail, then lose his job. He would have no means to support his family. He may even divorce her for considering him having sex with her one night as marital rape. In my opinion, she should have given him sex when he asked that night since we aren’t to deprive our husbands. She could have asked him if it would be okay to wait until the morning, too, if she was too exhausted but at least let him know she will give it to him very soon. I know that many wives are depriving their husbands sexually on a continual basis and they are in sin.
So he divorces her and remarries. Her marriage is destroyed. She’s left alone to have to support herself and her children, if she has any, just because I told her that her husband was committing marital rape because he was having sex with her one time during the middle of the night. I won’t do this. I am in the business of restoring marriages and trying to make them better. I am sure there are many wives who would admit that their husbands have woken them up in the middle of the night trying to have sex with them. It’s not that big of a deal!
Our culture is a culture of death. They want the death of this marriage so they accuse this man of marital rape. All this would lead to is the destruction of their marriage. God wants us to promote a culture of life. Life for the unborn and life for marriages. Wives, don’t deprive your husbands sexually. God is very clear about not doing this. Most husbands married because they want to have sex on a regular basis. One reason for marrying is that it is better to marry than to burn. Be wise in the counsel you give to other women. Always fight for marriages rather than tear them down.
The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband. For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.
1 Corinthians 7:3-5
***Every time I write about this topic, women will write me and ask about women having higher sex drives than their husbands. This is the post that I direct them to that was written by TheJoyFilledWife.
89 thoughts on “Was This Truly Marital Rape?”
I can’t believe people and some believers at that believe this was “rape” lol. Biblically speaking a wife shouldn’t deny her husband sex. If he starts having sex with her while she is sleep and she really doesn’t want to (hopefully for a good reason) then she should humble ask him for a rain check end of story. But to say her husband is raping her is crazy. Her body belongs to him biblically speaking and vice verse.
When you marry you accept that intimacy is part of that relationship. It’s one thing to not feel like it from time to time but constantly denying intimacy isn’t okay. Your partner does stuff he’s not thrilled with to make you happy so why not return the favor? No man should force his wife, but she shouldn’t deny him.
I do not think this was rape. I do however believe that it was very inconsiderate of the husband to do that while the wife was sleeping. Sex was created by God to be a intimate, connecting act between husband and wife. It’s not very intimate or connecting if one of the spouses is asleep and not participating in the act.
So what if it was inconsiderate, T? Is there no grace in a Christian marriage? Don’t spouses allow the other to mess up at times and forgive freely? Aren’t we to forgive as Christ has forgiven us?
I don’t believe that anyone who has not experienced frequent denial of sexual intimacy in their marriage can fully understand how destructive it is to that relationship. Especially when the offending spouse refuses to acknowledge their sin and refuses to attend counseling. It exposes the marriage to temptations on an unimaginable scale. The church has failed miserably in addressing this sin.
English is not my first language so I could be far off the mark here; but my understanding of the word “Rape” is primarily non consensual sex. It may involve physical abuse as in the rape of an adult woman or it may involve only coercion as in the case of statutory rape of a minor.
In light of this, in the strictest sense, sex in marriage can never be defined as rape because when the bride and groom stand at the altar and say “ I do” they are giving consent once and for all to sex, among other things. This is why today’s fornicating culture is teaching young people to keep asking their partners if “this is okay” every step of the way as they progress from holding hands right up to full on intercourse (and if the girl wakes up with buyer’s remorse she’s entitled to cry “rape”). In a marriage, there’s no need for such “bureaucracy” because consent was given at the altar.
Now, are there cases where husbands may abuse their wives sexually? Without a doubt because we live in a sin rent world. In these cases the authorities need to be involved for the safety of the wife, however, we still cannot call this “marital rape” the term is an oxymoron really. The term has been latched onto by feminists seeking to strike terror in the hearts of men everywhere and to embolden all gate keeping wives in their sin of marital defrauding. I think a great place to start in tearing down this stronghold is in naming it correctly and defusing the implied bomb in the term “marital rape”
You are a very wise woman. Thank you.
Yes, this is exactly what the Bible tells us. Thank you.
You’re right, Charles, and many men have stated this on my blog or have written to my husband about it. It’s a very painful place for a husband to be in – with a wife that continually denies her husband sexual intimacy. She is living in sin and tearing her home down with her own hands.
Instead of looking for what this man possibly could be doing wrong, how about as a wife looking and believing her Husband has nothing but goodwill towards her.
How exciting! To be woken up in the middle of the night with the love of your life desiring you! Certainly it should add some extra excitement!
My goodness, I’m saddened that this woman has had her thought twisted in this matter that she finds to question if her husband was rapping her in their marital bed .
I certainly pray he never finds out and she seeks counsel for this. He could be afraid to ever show interest in her again.
I know many wives (myself for included) who would be more then excited and thrilled to wake up to their husbands hot with passion for them in the middle of the night.
I agree with you. It’s a rebellious, unloving, and unforgiving wife who would claim her husband was raping her by doing this.
The woman lawyer who wrote the below referenced article is against “so called” marital rape, but I will take the facts that she puts forth as truthful. Below the link, I have copied and pasted some key points from her article. https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/criminal-defense/crime-penalties/marital-rape.htm
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“Marital rape was a term that was viewed by the law as an oxymoron until… late in U.S. history. Until the 1970’s, the rape laws in every state in the union included an exception if the “rapist” and the “victim” were husband and wife. In 1993, all 50 states had finally eliminated the “marital rape exception.”
Historic View
“While it has generally been illegal at all times for a man to force sex upon a woman other than his wife, a husband could force sex upon his wife without violating the law until very recently. The justifications for this marital rape exception were:
the British common law view that the contract of marriage includes the husband’s “right to sex”—the wife having given consent for all time by entering the contract
the traditional view of wives as the property of their husbands with which they could do as they pleased under common law, and
the public interest in promoting privacy and harmony in marital relationships, which discouraged the state from interfering in the relationships.
“The women’s movement of the 1970’s led to changes in the law. In 1976, Nebraska became the first state to throw out its marital rape exception law. Seventeen years later, all 50 states had revoked their marital rape exceptions.”
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So there we have it, from the beginning of time (until about 25-40 years ago), there was no such thing as “marital rape”. It is a product of feminism (Satan’s destructive influence on this world) . Nothing more, nothing less.
It is certainly not something that is taught in the Bible. The Bible (1 Corinthians 7:3-5) tells married men and women that sex is a DUTY. The Greek word translated as Duty is “opheile”:
Strong’s Concordance
opheilé: a debt
Definition: a debt
Usage: a debt, a duty, what is due.
Ladies, sex within marriage is a debt that you OWE your husband. He should NEVER have to collect (what is due) from you by force. If he has to do that (without actually doing physical harm to you), it is to YOUR shame, not his. Regardless of the circumstance, a man should never do anything that actually causes physical harm to his wife.
Before the advent of “no-fault” divorce, a lack of sex in a marriage was one of the few actual reasons that someone could get permission from the courts to divorce their spouse. I personally believe that it’s included in the term “sexual immorality” that Mathew 19:9 speaks of and is a legitimate and justified Biblical reason for a man to divorce his wife.
Wives, stop being deceived by the lies of Satan (feminism) and joyfully and generously give your husband what is owed to him, it will make your marriage much, much better. If you don’t, it is YOU that are in sin and your husband is perfectly justified before God if he divorces you because of it.
God’s word is always for our good. Its either we obey his word or live in sin there is no in between. A wife depriving her husband is actually living in sin. “For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry.”
Very well said.
This is so foreign to most “Christian” women today that it’s tragic, Trey. They don’t actually believe the Bible and that God tells them to not deprive their husbands. No, they want to shout “marital rape” at this man for having sex with his wife during the night. They say nothing about this woman denying her husband by saying no to him. It’s all the man’s fault in their eyes. The woman is guiltless. This is the end result of feminism. The fault always lies with the man regardless of the woman’s behavior.
I think modern society has elevated “sex” far above what it really is – as though sexual relationships were some sort of (I can’t put my finger on the word), some sort of “pinnacle of self sanctity”. As though sexual activity was the highest, or deepest level of your being. As if sex was the ultimate expression of your inner being, and something that is exclusively yours; something to be protected and accessed only once someone has attained that level of access by proving themselves to you and by you granting them access based on that performance. The world’s view of sexuality is, in that respect, very selfish. “It’s mine, and mine only, and only I decide who can and cannot have it, and when“.
Again, it’s hard to describe what I think about society’s view of sex. Maybe someone with more skill with words can help me out. But it is definitely a very self-centered view of sexuality. To the world, the chief aim of sex is the orgasm – the pleasure. And specifically your OWN pleasure. They’ve made “orgasm” into a religious experience and are practically worshiping it with all the sanctity they can muster.
However, I can tell you exactly what my Christian, biblical view is:
Sex is like brushing your teeth, or cooking dinner, or mowing the lawn, or doing the laundry, or chopping and stacking firewood. It is a very normal, even mundane part of every Christian marriage.
To believers, the orgasm is a nice side benefit of sex, but it is hardly it’s chief aim. The chief aim of sex is strengthening the bond of intimacy between the husband and wife. Sex’s objective is not the pleasure of orgasm, but the pleasure of simply being with your husband or wife, and I mean “being” not as simply existing, but of being almost one being. Sex’s objective is unity, not orgasm. It’s object is not first pleasure, but strengthening the relationship by reinforcing the familiarity and intimacy and exclusivity of the marriage. And intimacy and familiarity come from one thing: frequency, and just plain “being there”.
I’m not downplaying the pleasure of sex, but it is not my first goal. To me, my sexual relationship with my wife simply strengthens the bond between us, and reinforces the knowledge of “I am accepted here, unconditionally. I belong here.”
And isn’t that what marriage really means? It’s the model of our relationship to our Lord. And just as we are accepted unconditionally, forgiven of each and every sin, and welcomed, THAT is the attitude we are to have towards our husbands or wives.
Else, what can Jesus even mean by telling us to love each other sacrificially and unconditionally, if what we do doesn’t actually require sacrifice, and is subject to approval?
There is a lack of consideration in marriage and there is in extreme cases abuse. But fundamentally a husband and wife are one flesh and consent is given at the alter.
So called “Christian” women would revel in their rebellion and apostasy on this one. They will fight against CLEAR biblical teaching just so they can hold on to their “rights”.
The Bible says the wifes body belongs to the husband – AND VICE VERSA.
Here it is, and it couldn’t be clearer –
“The wiife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.” – 1 Cor 7:4.
Did you read that? It says “NO POWER”. Other translations says “NO AUTHORITY”.
Furthermore, it says you cannot deny each other – except by MUTUAL CONSENT, and only for a time.
“Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time…” – 1 Cor 7:5. Another translation says – DO
NOT DEPRIVE ONE ANOTHER.
This means BOTH parties have to agree if one does not want sex. Put another way, no one can unilaterally decide on this issue
This is not anyone’s opinion, but a God mandated teaching and exhortation. Again, how clear does this have to be?
Of course, to a world looking for a get out clause to God’s word so they can please the god of Self, this isn’t clear at all.
I once wrote that spousal rape can NEVER happen in a Christian marriage. If it does, one or both parties are not Christian. People convulsed, foamed at the mouth and reported the post. It was subsequently taken down.
We are indeed in perilous times where people will refuse sound doctrine, just so they can practice their powerless cherry picking Christianity in peace.
English may not be your first language, but you certainly used it well. 😉
Want to know what’s really interesting? Read these comments here on Lori’s blog where most of the readers are Christian believers. Then go read the comments on this same article when she publishes it on Facebook where the audience is much more “the world”.
The world goes absolutely bonkers when they see her say these things, and unleash the most vile, vitriolic selfish, and hateful wrath you can imagine.
my husband used to wake me up like this in our younger years. we enjoyed the pleasure and it felt great to be so desired. now we are older and treasure the memories. our aging bodies won’t do what they used to but we still have fun trying! this lady must be crazy to fight against the one who loves and desires her. there are single women out there who would love to have a husband such as hers.
A gynocentric view of marriage. Man is expected to love, provide and protect, etc. and woman is expected to just show up. It’s insane, and nobody see’s it anymore.
When sex is reduced into a consensual act between two parties for mutual gain, then sex is viewed as an ad hoc contract between those parties. Ergo, when one party is not competent in the exchange, the terms have been violated. Sex is now a commodity, both in and out of marriage. I can say to most men, stay away from women. You can easily end up in prison from a transaction gone bad, and this can happen to a married man with his wife as well. Marriage is one contract with the state, sex is another. Unless you have a God fearing woman, deal with celibacy, it’s better than incarceration. This is no joke, sex is now a cottage industry for the government. Collecting child support, handling divorce, putting men in prison, civil lawsuits, it’s big business. Be afraid, and stay away from ungodly women.
I don’t allow those comments on this blog, Robert. Yes, they’re coming but you won’t see them!
Of course I believe in grace in Christian marriage! I am a Christian as well as my husband and I know that I as well as my husband have made mistakes and we have abundant Grace for each other. I was just stating that this lady’s husband’s act was inconsiderate.(Not rape by the way as I clearly stated) It’s not just women who do wrong in their marriage with sexual matters, although most do.My husband loves sex just like most husbands (I never turn him down by the way)however he would never try to have sex with me while I am sleeping. He says that’s just wrong because where is the intimacy in that!?!
He may have been “inconsiderate” but she was in sin by denying him sexual intimacy for no reason at all. No one seems to want to put any blame on the woman for disobeying God.
Hello Robert,
I agree that sex should be regular and a bonding experience, but perhaps you neglect the biology of the female body when you describe sex as just being together, and that pleasure comes secondary.
Most of the time, barring any medical issues, a man will find sex pleasurable and will orgasm without much trouble at all. He probably sees this as very bonding — his wife loving and accepting his body, pleasuring him, and doing it on a regular basis.
Now imagine you are the wife, and you do not regularily orgasm, as your husband does not thinks it is secondary. Well, orgasm releases oxytocin, the bonding chemical, just the way God intended! I do not think it is selfish for a woman to think that sex should include orgasm. Just as the man wants to feel regularily loved and accepted through sex, so do women. In fact, giving your wife an orgasm will help her bond even closer to you.
A husband who denies his wife’s needs is sinning — Paul says you shall not deny your wife!
Hello Trey,
From what I have read, marital rape laws were created from men who have drugged, filmed, and distributed images/videos of them having sex with their unconscious wives, men who engaged in destructive oral or anal sex, men who used drugs or alcohol and then had sex with their wives, men who lied about having an STD (from adultery) and then infected their wives, or men who caused bodily harm to their wives by forcing themselves into her when she was not aroused or was injured.
Perhaps the laws do not apply in some cases, like the story Lori told, but I do not think the laws themselves are evil or feminist.
I don’t know what the problem is. I enjoy “raping” my husband whenever I feel like it (if the definition of rape is getting started while your spouse is asleep).
O believe me I totally agree with you, she did sin. (Never said she did not) As you, I also believe women are to blame for most sin commited. I am Not a feminist. I would not enjoy your blog like I do if I was. However, sometimes husbands do sin, (although very rarely )in marriage. My original comment was not to take her sin and pin it on him. I just stated his act was inconsiderate (or not very well thought out might have been a better way to put it), seeing the husband always makes better judgement than the wife. He should have called her out on her sin at the moment she denied him sex instead of having sex with her while sleeping
All husbands absolutely do sin since no one is perfect, T. My goal in writing is to teach women and try to help them be the wives that God has called them to be. I know they can’t change their husbands but they can be very influential in the way they love and treat them. They are only accountable for their own behavior not their husbands as I am sure you would agree.
I believe 1 Corinthians 7v1 would be a good verse to back this up.
My husband was watching a YouTube of a man who has a degree in psychology (he is not a Christian) and was instructing men that if you are dating a woman and she frequently compliments you and tells you she loves you, but won’t have sex with you then she is a liar and to dump her. While we were not surprised at his comments, we were incensed. Christian women aren’t the only ones trying to stay pure before marriage. There are, believe it or not a number of non Christians who see the merit in it and practice it. (Albeit a small number) such horrible,destructive advice and will only lead to devestation,destruction and disease. But, it is the way of the world. 99% of the comments on the video were vile. My husband was the only one who pulled him up on his poor advice. And unlike the other comments, he only got one like. I don’t think he has watched him since.
Will you do a video defending this again!!!
Probably not.
So, then is it ok for a woman to have sex with her sleeping husband who said “no” earlier?
Most husbands would LOVE for this to happen!
Kate,
It sounds like you have drank deeply from the feminist kool-aid.
To contend that back in the 1970’s (when the laws began to be changed) that men were drugging, filming, and distributing images/videos of them having sex with their unconscious wives… (before digital images and videos were even invented and the only distribution would have been person to person as the internet was not widely used until the 1990’s)…. for such a long period of time and on such an epidemic level as to get LAWS CHANGED… is an argument just not based in reality.
In the same way, to contend that there were men… so many of them in fact… “who engaged in destructive oral or anal sex, men who used drugs or alcohol and then had sex with their wives, men who lied about having an STD (from adultery) and then infected their wives, or men who caused bodily harm to their wives by forcing themselves into her when she was not aroused or was injured.”… AT SUCH EPIDEMIC levels (for such a long period of time) as to cause laws to be changed, is just illogical.
We could only hope that our government would be able to respond so quickly and efficiently to our societal problems. They can’t and they don’t. Feminist began working to get these laws changed as early as 1848 (see citation below).
BUT, don’t take my word for it, take the word of Jill Elaine Hasday, Assistant Professor, University of Chicago Law School. B.A. 1994, J.D. 1997, Yale
University.
Referencing this scholarly paper, written by a female University Professor (no patriarchal bias here), on the history of marital rape: https://scholarship.law.berkeley.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1484&context=californialawreview
This paper is 134 pages (with hundreds of citations) but I have included just a few quotes from the first few pages of the introduction, that virtually make the case.
“As Parts I through IV of this Article reveal, a husband’s conjugal rights became the focus of public controversy almost immediately after the first organized woman’s rights movement coalesced in 1848. Over the course of the next half century, feminists waged a vigorous, public, and extraordinarily frank campaign against a man’s right to forced sex in marriage.”
This movement was driven solely by the feminists in pursuit of…
“demanding the right to sexual self-possession in marriage”
because…
“…economic and political equality, including even the vote, would prove hollow, if women did not win the right to set the terms of marital intercourse. Indeed, feminists explained a woman’s lack of control over her person as the key foundation of her subordination. This claim was acutely gender-specific, grounded in the argument that women needed to control the terms of marital intercourse in order to regulate the portion of their lives they would have to devote to raising children. Convinced that women’s subordination was ultimately rooted in the structure of marital relations, feminists demanded both the right to refuse and viable socioeconomic alternatives to submission.”
You see, what it really boiled down to is that women did not want to have to submit to their husbands. They wanted to control their own lives, do what THEY wanted to do and not have to do anything they did not want to do. Thus, being able to deny their husbands sex was foundational to the feminist movement and this is how it went down.
“Very soon after nineteenth-century feminists began speaking about a wife’s right to her own person, mainstream prescriptive authors began to offer extended analyses of the harm that marital rape inflicted. This prescriptive literature, however, did not challenge a husband’s legal right to control marital intercourse. It marshaled, instead, an array of moral, physiological, and strategic arguments designed to convince husbands to voluntarily cede discretion over sex to their wives, promising that the concession would serve the interests of husbands as well as wives. In the hands of the popular prescriptive literature, the feminist demand for enforceable rights to protect women from subordination to their husbands was recast into a series of suggested strategies for marital mutuality, to be pursued in a husband’s interest as he saw fit.”
Men, swayed by ever increasing public opinion, trying to be kind and considerate and to do what they felt was best for their women, were fooled by Satan into giving rights to women… the most important (destructive) of them, the right to vote. It was all down hill from there and the demise and destruction of the family and subsequently, all of Western Civilization began.
Lets be very clear, anything that goes against the clear teachings of the Bible, including laws by the government, is evil. Feminism is evil. Wives having self-determination is evil (the husband is the head of the wife). Women denying their husbands sex is evil.
Actually Nancy it would not be ok.
The husband is the head of the wife and she is to submit to (and obey) him in everything (unless he is asking her to sin). If he said “no” then for that time it would mean no.
Now it would be sin for a husband to refuse his wife sex for any extended length of time. But her having equal conjugal rights does not give her equal authority in the marriage and it does not give her the right to disobey him. A husbands sin does not justify a wife sinning also.
To most men, the idea of being awakened in the middle of the night by his wife initiating sex is a dream come true. Maybe he doesn’t realize his wife doesn’t necessarily see things that way. But it’s certainly not rape. It would be rape for some random woman to start having sex with a man while he sleeps, but it’s not rape for a wife to wake her husband up by having sex with him. In the same way, it would be rape for some random man to start having sex with a woman while she is sleeping, but not rape when a husband does it. The marriage means they belong to one another and have already consented to sex with one another.
Interesting, I wrote something similar, in the comments, now on a seven day suspension on FB.
I am not surprised, sadly.
When a man can be convicted of rape based on nothing more than the woman’s word (even scientific evidence proving his innocence is not enough) it is not surprising that FB is against us speaking Biblical truth.
Marital rape can happen, of course. By evil, abusive men. And these men are not Christians. You’re so right – there can be no marital rape in a Christian marriage.
If a couple are both virgins when they marry there is very little “incompetence in the transaction” because you both learn together. You both grow old together, and as bodies age and parts don’t work as they once did, you keep exploring intimacy options together.
Sex is only a transaction when it’s been misused.
The Bible disagrees with you Trey. Scripture makes it clear authority over the husbands body belongs to the wife.
This is embarrassing to admit because most people would t understand, but I’m a woman in my 50s married for 29 years and I don’t think I’ve ever had an orgasm. I don’t even know what people are talking about. I never deny my husband and gladly am intimate with him as this what I’m called to do as a wife. But it has not been an issue in our marriage whatsoever. Essentially once my husbands needs are met, it’s done. He is happy and content and I happy because of that. But my question is this, am I sinning because I have never experienced this? Maybe I am broken in some way or need to repent
This verse is stating that a husband should be willing to have sex with his wife as a wife should be willing to have sex with her husband and neither should deprive the other. This is the only authority given to women over their husbands but this authority is also given to the husbands over their wives. Overall, the wife is to submit to her husband, yes in everything, since he is head over her. This is clear in Scripture.
You’re not broken or need to repent, KAR. There are books that explain how a woman can orgasm if you’re interested in learning how to do it.
Um, shouldn’t the procreation of children at least factor SOMEWHERE into your definition of the “chief aim of sex”?
Lyndzee, I totally agree with you there. Contrary to the prevailing emphasis on date nights, husbands buying flowers and candy for wives and husbands doing the lion’s share of housework; all in the name of romancing their wives into wanting to be intimate with them; I find those things unrealistic to maintain especially if there are young children to raise. A couple has to be creative and spontaneous which may mean one spouse waking the other up in the middle of the night. Strictly speaking, barring a medical restriction, no spouse should have the final say on when and how intimacy happens i.e. whenever one spouse is in the mood, and discretion and privacy are available, the other spouse should gladly oblige. After all it is the only special gift that one can give to one’s spouse alone. If we cannot love our nearest and dearest neigbour, can we honestly claim to love God?
Hi Lori! I really enjoy reading your blog. I have a question. I couldn’t find in the story where it said that she denied her husband for no reason. Maybe she had a reason? (maybe she was tired or was not feeling well?)
She told me she simply didn’t feel like it.
This is Trey’s attitude to sex from another site:
I deleted your full comment, KAK, because my husband reached out to Trey and asked him about it. Trey regretted writing that comment and knew it was wrong immediately after he published it. This is when we show grace to others. We all make mistakes. None of us are perfect. Please don’t share this around. Thank you.
Lori, I’m not trying to be mean but M’s comment is not very lady like. I know what she was meaning with the “pun” on words. However, it does not sound like talk a CHRISTIAN LADY should use. I know if I used a comment like that my husband would quickly and rightfully so chastise me. This sounds like how an unGodly feminist woman would talk, not a meek God fearing woman. The Bible does say let no unwholesome talk come out of your mouth . This comment is offensive to a wife who obeys every aspect of God’s word.
She was kidding, T. I took no offense to it whatsoever.
As I stated I know she was kidding. Even if kidding it does not sound good for a Godly woman to talk that way. It makes us look bad and not much different from the world.
Hi KAR,
It could be a very bonding and intimate experience for you to ask your husband to help you orgasm. There are Christian books on how to achieve this that enlist both the husband and wife’s participation. Orgasm releases oxytocin and will create a very special bond. You can always tell your husband exactly what you have said here, that you are happy and content, but that you would like to take it to “another level” and use the organs God has given you.
I appreciate the replies, but I am 100% sure that my husband would be against this (even books by Christian authors or from a Christian perspective). He would consider it not appropriate for a Christian woman to discuss. I know everyone is different and I’m not saying it’s wrong for others. We both come from very conservative Christian backgrounds. He is very happy and is having his needs met. It would seem selfish to me to seek pleasure for myself. And honestly? If you don’t know what your missing, you don’t really miss it. At this age (mid 50s) I’m too old to worry about it. I just wanted to make sure I wasn’t sinning in some way.
I know an older woman who is similar to you. She was raised with somewhat “Victorian” values.
What I cannot understand is this, Lori. Why could this wife not have just said to her husband “Oh, not now, honey , let’s wait until we have had some sleep and are a bit more refreshed so we can both enjoy it?” Seems simple to me. They could both wait a few hours and enjoy it when they both really desire it. Win-win situation, everyone is happy.
Yeah, having a night off if you feel unwell or tired is fine but not to deny him constantly or to “punish” him. Some wives are abusive and they withold sex from their husbands as a weapon. That is emotional and mental abuse! Sadly I think men are victims of abuse as much as women when it is the psychological or verbal kind but it is underreported
T, I agree it was inconsiderate, but she should forgive him. We can set boundaries and stil forgive. Setting boundaries and forgiveness are two different things. I have gone low contact with some people in my life because they are “toxic” and drain my energy (emotionally needy victim types) but i still forgive them and love them from a safe distance. I wont be dragged into their mess because that is being unfair on myself) but i forgive because Jesus forgave my sins so I cannot withold forgiveness from others
You can add me to that list, too, Lyndzee! That would be so wonderful. When I wake up in the middle of the night, I know it is not in my best interests to even touch him — if I even snuggled up to my husband in the past, I would get an earful about how he’d worked hard all day long and he needed his rest, etc. If I touched him in bed, look out! It was considered disrespectful after he’d worked hard all day and he needed his rest. That was one reason I finally decided to go back to work myself at the Christian school…..but anyway, whatever…..
I hope she realizes just how many women would love to have what she has. Wow, that would be so wonderful — wake up and find yourself in your husband’s ardent arms…..mmmmm…….how lovely…..she’s blessed.
Well, to be fair, there have been cases of women contracting diseases if their husbands have been unfaithful to them. When you have sex with your husband who has committed adultery, you are essentially having sex with all the people he has had sex with. And who knows where they have been (i.e., prostitutes).
Personally, if I knew my husband had been unfaithful (meaning I would either have proof or he would have admitted it), I would refuse to have relations with him until he had had a blood panel screening and I knew he wasn’t carrying anything. I think this is reasonable. But I would never divorce him, even though I know there is an allowance for that. But once the blood test came back clear, it would be my obligation to fulfill my duties as a wife upon his request.
And it goes both ways; if I were unfaithful, he would have a right to refuse me until we both knew I was clear of any disease.
As a Catholic, it is for me. We have them listed in this priority order:
1. The procreation of children
2. The increase of love between the spouses
3. The quieting of concupiscence
If we desire to avoid pregnancy, we use natural family planning, which is quite unlike the old rhythm method and very effective if a pregnancy is not advisable at any point. I always charted (still do, even though he has no interest in me at all, but just in case) and when he was still having sex with me, he would regularly check my calendar. Charting is easy to do, and that way he can decide if he wishes you to be pregnant or would prefer to put it off for a while. I know a lot of couples say that NFP charting really strengthened their marriages because they communicated a lot about that, and it led to other things, and more, and more…. (I hoped it would strengthen mine, but it is what it is!)
Oh, how sweet!!!!
Would you tell us how many years you’ve been married?
Loved reading this. 🙂
“The husband is the head of the wife and she is to submit to (and obey) him in everything (unless he is asking her to sin). If he said “no” then for that time it would mean no.”
Well, I guess that explains a lot about my situation.
I learned that the hard way. At least he finally was OK with my going back to work. I suppose I’ll have to quit that job as soon as he decides he wants me homeschooling full time again. I just hope I won’t go out of my mind. I am finding the job so fulfilling and satisfying, it’s helping me keep my mind focused and off the reality that he doesn’t love me anymore.
That was me, too. I’m not that age yet, but I rarely orgasmed when my husband was still interested in me. I often hurt afterward, and I felt ashamed of it also. On our honeymoon, I was in excruciating agony and I had no idea whatsoever that I would bleed or anything. Nobody had told us anything. After my wedding night, we had brunch with our families before we left for our honeymoon proper, and I privately asked my mother and older sisters some questions — they nearly flipped out and I just shut down with them; they weren’t really interested in my problems, so I didn’t bother. The honeymoon was torturous and I had no idea why. I went back and forth from being ashamed to being confused, and then I got pregnant and ended up with hyperemesis gravidarium. But after I gave birth, sex was no longer painful like that. But it would still hurt. I didn’t know what to do and I was embarrassed and ashamed. Of course, I never told my husband I was in pain and I would try to use oil and things so that it would make it easier for him.
Once I tried to bring it up — once. My husband responded in the same way yours probably would — inappropriate for a good woman to discuss. I sort of read some books on my own in private (he made it clear that books or anything were unacceptable to him) and rather guiltily, but I did want to at least avoid the pain. I tried also to discuss what felt good, and that was not allowed, either. I found that using coconut oil helped, if that’s any use to you.
It wasn’t long after I discovered coconut oil that he lost interest in me, and that was the end of that. So I hadn’t had so-called “painless” sex long enough to really miss it — I guess — but I definitely miss the closeness, the love, the affection, and all that. It’s hard. REALLY hard.
I’ve been making a point to avoid reading posts on the physical relationship for this very reason, and here I went and did now. I sort of need to quit reading it because it’s making me want what I can’t have. 🙂 Christ meets all our needs!
Dear “a mom” — I’m sorry you are going through a version of this, too. Honestly, in my case (and this issue is prevalent from what I understand) a lot of families and various church culture taught that it was wrong for a woman to enjoy sex. I know in the churches I attended, it was stressed that a woman was to get pleasure from pleasing their husbands and giving to him freely (which I do and he is pleased — I would say we have a good Christian marriage) but not from the physical act itself. We were taught that only “fast, loose” women liked sex. And that if we expressed any kind of sexual need even to our husbands, it was seen as dirty and inappropriate. My husband I were both brought up this way. This is why we could never discuss this. Now reading various Christian sites, etc. I see this maybe isn’t true, but after years of being taught this, it’s not something you can overcome. It just feels wrong. Don’t get me wrong, I love being close to my husband and I’m glad I can satisfy him. But I don’t think I’ll ever be able to get over the teaching that sexual pleasure is for men only.
What church culture were you raised in?
I was brought up in a variety of Protestant denominations (Baptist, and independent Methodist congregations growing up)
I have just never heard what you were being taught in any church I attended or sermons I have ever heard but I am not doubting what you say.
Well, I’m glad to hear all churches don’t teach this. But I think the damage has been done by a lot of them. I go back to my original comment — I think I am broken. But it doesn’t really matter at all, since my number #1 priority is my husband’s happiness. As you often teach, women should not be ruled by their feelings. I’ve trained myself not to have any needs of my own (sexual or otherwise) beyond serving my loving husband.
You are NOT broken if you are in Christ! Please, read and even memorize Romans 6 and 8. You are storing your treasures in heaven and we are asked to live a life of sacrifice; for in this there is great reward. Find healing in Him!
Anna,
Ooops, yes. It should. But I was trying to counter the world’s view of sexuality, and it’s alternative in believer’s marriages. We, being mom and dad of six kids, just kind of take that procreation thing for granted. haha 😉
Anna,
Ooops, it certainly should.
But I was really just trying to put a counterpoint to the world’s view of sexuality, and it’s better alternative in believer’s marriages. Procreation is getting to be almost repugnant to the world.
I guess, as mom and dad to six kids, we just kind of take that whole procreation thing for granted, so I failed to mention it. haha. 😉
“The quieting of concupiscence…”
I love the sound of that. Not sure what it means, but it sounds really cool to say it. 😉
Can you explain?
Hello, Kate.
I started to address that very thing in my comment, but decided it was apart from the point, and I cut it out. I had simply mentioned that God has blessed me such that I am able to put off my own gratification to “last long enough” for my wife to be satisfied first. Because that is important to me. It makes me feel as though I serve some purpose in the act besides just pleasuring myself at her expense.
The downside of that is, for us guys, it’s less pleasurable the longer it is delayed, so I lose most of my own satisfaction in seeing to hers. But, that’s OK.
Really, fully half the whole pleasure of sex is seeing that my wife is satisfied. And my wife takes care to make sure that I am satisfied too, without having to hold out so long, sometimes.
But, yes, you are correct that neither of the spouses is allowed to deny the other, with the exceptions given that it be on mutual agreement, and even then, only for a short time.
I actually was linked to your blog from a non christian site. I’m a Christian (20 years) been married 29 years. My husband was not a Christian until 5 years ago. Sex is bonding in marriage but both parties bodies will go through time where they want more or less of each other. My husband and I have worked different shifts for years. He will caress and gently wake me up for sex but if i tell him I need sleep he leaves me along and vise versa. Yes he turns me down cause he is tired sleepy. Now he never did in his younger days LOL. But now in his mid 50’s he chooses sleep sometimes. Gosh cant tell you how many times i’ve been touch sexually while asleep and never thought of it as rape. He would never do full penetration unless I woke up. He likes full participation 🙂 DO not get these women except that they really don’t love and trust their husbands. I think there is more wrong in the marriage for them to feel that way.
Yep, sure. Here goes:
Concupiscence — English noun (origins from Norman French) meaning “desire”
from Latin noun “concupiscentia” meaning “eager desire”
which is derived from Latin verb “concupiscere” meaning “to desire ardently”
Sorry. Former homeschooling Mom and still teaching anyway, so I keep on truckin’ with things like this. 🙂
You are a strong woman, a mom, I always send prayers your way for your continued strength whenever I read your comments.
Thanks, I can sure use them.
It’s frightening to me and other men that women discuss this so casually. To be accused of rape means:
– Jail
– Losing your family, your savings, and access to your children
– Never again being employed, renting an apartment, or living anywhere
To be only accused of rape is an utter destruction of his life and reputation.
“Rape your wife” ?? Do women realize how destructive it is, even to hear these words? What man would ever, ever get married knowing that his wife can still accuse him of rape?
Boys in college now being accused of sexual assault for kissing a drunk girl?
This issue is pure poison for society. It could trigger many men to insanity and destruction.
I agree with you, Bill, and simply another way to ruin men. The #metoo movement has been highly destructive to our nation and helped no one.
Oops. That should have been, “I MEANT what I said…”
That was all my husband’s fault, he grilled steaks for us on the barbeque last night. 🙂
It is worth noting, and putting into practice ourselves, the example of almost exactly this scenario in one of the most important parables Jesus ever employed – because it was a description of a future event that will happen one day.
We, the Church, represent Jesus’ Bride, his Wife, and he himself is the Bridegroom and husband.
And Jesus’ bride employed the help of ten bridesmaids to ALL keep watch through the entire night for the arrival of the husband, because no one knew when he might come for her, and in fact, it was expected that it would be late at night, and in the parable, it was very late, and she was expected to be ready, waiting, and prepared for his arrival.
There is no escaping the fact that the relationship of the Church to Christ and Christ to the church is couched in the language of marriage. It’s a wedding that he is coming to take us to, and he plans to consummate that wedding, and yes, that consummation is expressed in this life as the sexual relationship between a husband and a wife. The wife is expected to be watching and ready for her husband at any time of the day or night, and to await his arrival with anticipation, and to treat his arrival with joy.
To NOT be ready for his arrival was described as being “foolish”, and the consequence was (let’s face it) eternal hell. This is a serious matter and worthy of our attention and our best effort.
Can you imagine any of most of the world’s women today being this faithful Bride?
“Oh, Lord, I’m really too tired. Maybe you could come back in the morning?”
Or anyone having to tell him, “You just missed her, Lord. But, she get’s off work at 5:00pm, and I’m sure she’ll be back for you by then.”
Or, worse yet, “Hands off, Jesus! My body! My choice! #MeToo!!!”
It is shocking the level to which we have fallen, treating our husbands this way while claiming to be the Faithful Bride as a Christian. How will you receive your Lord with joy, 24 hours a day, when you cannot even faithfully receive your own husbands for a few minutes in the evening?
All Christians regard this parable as an event of gladness, happiness, and love. Yet treat their husbands with disdain. It sounds harsh, but how do you expect that you will receive your Lord, when you cannot even receive your own husbands? As it was put elsewhere in scripture, “How can you claim to love God whom you cannot see, when you cannot even love your husband whom you can see?”
We really, really need to take seriously Christ’s claim upon us. He really is coming one day to receive us. And he’s not coming by to play cards and chat about the weather.
Women are at particularly high risk for being raped by their partners under the following circumstances:
Women married to domineering men who view them as ‘property’
Women who are in physically violent relationships
Women who are pregnant
Women who are ill or recovering from surgery
Women who are separated or divorced
It is a myth that marital rape is less serious than other forms of sexual violence. There are many physical and emotional consequences that may accompany marital rape:
Physical effects include injuries to the vaginal and anal areas, lacerations, soreness, bruising, torn muscles, fatigue, and vomiting.
Women who are battered and raped frequently suffer from broken bones, black eyes, bloody noses and knife wounds.
Gynecological effects include vaginal stretching, pelvic inflammation, unwanted pregnancies, miscarriages, stillbirths, bladder infections, sexually transmitted diseases, HIV, and infertility.
Short-term psychological effects include PTSD, anxiety, shock, intense fear, depression and suicidal ideation.
Long-term psychological effects include disordered sleeping, disordered eating, depression, intimacy problems, negative self-images, and sexual dysfunction.
I’ll link more info on the topic- https://vawnet.org/material/marital-rape-new-research-and-directions
Yes, these sound like true marital rape, not what this woman who wrote to me experienced. There was no harm done to her at all except maybe a little loss of sleep.