Christian Men Going Their Own Wrong Way

Christian Men Going Their Own Wrong Way

Written By Ken

Fortunately, the Coronavirus, so far, has only one main mutation that we know of, but the Feminist virus that has found the Church appears to have many. There are many victims as Feminism has infiltrated culture and the Church, from husbands, wives, and children. Even grandparents are not immune to the effects of this unrelenting virus as families are torn apart. But one of the offshoots of the virus are husbands who are victims are trying to coach other young Christian men to go their own way and no longer marry.

If you have spent any time in the comment section of this blog, you see these victims and the virus carriers. Yes, we know and understand their plight all too well having listened to many men share their sad stories of  “Christian” wives abandoning them and their families, figuratively and literally. It is not unusual that once or twice a week, I hear from another man how his wife has the virus and how she has pushed him and any thoughts of treating him as a husband out the window to go her own way.

Many men live as islands in their own “Christian” homes, praying and pleading with God through their tears that their wives would come to their senses and choose to once again have a marriage with them. All the while, the children have no idea that Mom will not touch, be kind to, nor sleep with Dad, or listen to anything he tries to tell her. She is in control and sick of him. No man will control her or compel her to do anything she doesn’t want to do, so she gives her minimum to the relationship.

The divorce comes and it is ugly. Neither side is immune to a lying spouse when it comes to divorce and the divorce courts don’t care. Just split the property, split the kids, and the one who has done the heavy lifting of earning more, usually the husband, gets stuck with alimony and child care, and too often loses custody of the children by decree or by practicality. It’s tough to work full time to provide alimony and watch the three children.

No-fault divorce is an utter travesty for the many who fought for their marriage, but lost the moment their spouse filed the papers. Almost everything in divorce and family court has a built-in bias against the man, so if you are a man who is the victim in the whole charade, you walk out bitter and bit by the MGTOW bug. Why ever marry again to put oneself through such misery, and why not warn other men to just go their own way too without the risks of a wife in their lives?

I am regularly counseling these men who are fighting for their marriages and my advice to them is always the same. They need to try and win their wife back by doing all things Christian in their homes and marriages and not fall into Satan’s trap of becoming part of the problem. Satan wants the offended spouse to lash back and to distance themselves. Return evil for evil, but this is not the Christian way of doing things. They, as men of God, must never give up hope until their wife is remarried, and then they are to move on and be at peace with her as best they can.

Most importantly, when they are victimized, they cannot then take on a new virus of bitterness and spread it to others. They must return to what they know is true, God’s Word, and stand firmly upon it. And what does God say about marriage?

“And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him” (Genesis 2:18).

“Let marriage be held in honor among all…” (Hebrews 13:4).

“He who finds a wife finds a good thing and obtains favor from the Lord” (Proverbs 18:22).

“And the two shall become one flesh. So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate” (Mark 10:8).

“Two are better than one, because they have a good reward for their toil. For if they fall, one will lift up his fellow… if two lie together, they keep warm, but how can one keep warm alone?—a threefold cord is not quickly broken” (Ecclesiastes 4:9-12).

Marriage is a good thing, but yes, it can destroy a soul to give one’s love away only to have it trampled upon by a spouse.

Marriage is very good, and is the union that best fulfills God’s purposes here on earth. I now look at my own marriage going on 40 years and think about the destruction to my heart and soul that would have come had my wife thrown our love away on divorce. Through tears, I pleaded with the Lord that He would open my eyes, and in turn her eyes, to see the viruses we carried into our marriage and to cure us. That the hurt little girl that was inside my once adorable bride would be willing to let down the walls of her defenses to allow me to speak truth into her “I am sure I am right” heart and mind. Yet, for far too many years, nothing seemed to get through to her to cure her of her virus.

Just as in this great disease facing us today, the cure is often more than one medication until the final antidote arrives. Christian men and women, you can help stem the tide of the diseases of rebellion in your homes if you will adopt the medicine of “doing all things Christian” in your own life, actions, and reactions to your spouse. You can show by your actions and your love that you want to work on your marriage and make it a godly, loving one even if he or she is not yet ready to come out of their Box of self-justification to play with you, pray with you, and be a spouse to you.

But the true antidote with no side effects for all marriages and the victims of marriage is a Serpent hung on a pole in the desert of your times. That same brazen serpent that the Children of Israel were told to gaze upon when they were bit by the vipers to assuage the sting and cure the bitterness of an unlovable spouse is Christ Jesus.

There’s a true story told by Michael Pearl of a researcher who lived in the Mohave Desert raising many venomous snakes so that he could provide antidotes to hospitals for those stung by an exotic breed. He was away from home one day and his child somehow got stung by one of these snakes and his wife rushed him to the hospital. By the time the Dad arrived, the doctor greeted him in the doorway to tell him that there was no hope for the son, as they did not have any of the antidote at the hospital. His son would surely die.

The Dad in tears cried out, “No he won’t, no he won’t!” But the doctor put his arm around him and told him again that there was no hope.

“No, you don’t understand! I have been bitten by almost every snake there is and I have lived. Let him have my blood. My blood can save him!”

Within minutes, the father was laying beside his son with his blood flowing through his little child’s veins, and the child lived. The man who had been bitten by every snake became the man who could provide the antidote for all the sins of the world, if only we will look upon Him on the cross and freely receive the gift of grace that God gives to all who will believe in Jesus Christ, the Suffering Servant and King.

You, victim husband or wife, and you, child or grandparent, when will you look upon Jesus and receive in your body the blood of the Christ, is it flowing freely through you to every nook and cranny? Will you allow that same blood that saved you for eternity save you now from anger, despair, frustration, and bitterness that is eating you alive from the inside out?

Oh, if only difficult wives and husbands would find this antidote before they divorce, as my wife and I did some 15-20 years ago when we found our new lives in Christ. We were Christians and we had received the antidote necessary for salvation and a life in eternity. But we had not come to realize that the same God who saved us for heaven, will save us today, this moment and for a lifetime from sin in the here and now. Sins that we commit, and sins that others have committed against have all been placed on a cross in 30 A.D. and all that is left for us to do is to go to that cross and lay our burdens and bitterness down so that the blood of Christ can fill up those parts of us that still do not fully belong to Him.

Okay, you victim, do you want victory over the harm that has come to you and over the bitterness of lost love and betrayal? Or do you, like too many victims, prefer to try and punish the one who victimized you by harming your own sense of well-being, peace, and joy by continuing to blame them without being able to move on into the wonderful things God has in store for your life?

Victory over bitterness requires the same antidote applied by the Believer for all sins which is simply to believe God at His Word and rest in the fact that the road you may have been on was not one you signed up for, but God can turn our misery into our ministry. It is time to prove out your faith as real. Show that the God, who can forgive us all our sins, is the same God who lives in us in Christ Jesus and allows us to forgive others with God’s grace and goodness. More so to live with optimism towards marriage because God calls it good, and there are many wonderful Christian women out there who want to share a marriage God’s way. There will always be a remnant. Learn from our mistakes and trust that God will lead you to the one in whom you can invest your lives in return for their never-ending love. God tells us true love believes to the end.

Can you say with me today that there is no thought, or sorrow, no angry bitterness that has beset you, or is off limits to the One you call Lord of your life? Stop allowing Satan to drag you into the mud of the past and move forward into the things that God has in store for His precious children who walk by faith, not by sight. Our past hurts no longer need define us, even as the scars of His hands may be upon us. We are a child of God. We are New Creatures in Christ and from this moment forward the past is gone as we are alive in Christ Jesus.

So you who are hurt, broken, and victims of a man, or a woman, or of marriage, we get it. But we hate it when you post your hopelessness and disrespect for the other sex because of your past bitter experiences. This blog is about hope, love, joy, and peace. Yes, it too tries to point out the evils of the many viruses of sin that disease God’s people, but we always try to point you back to the antidote of the blood of Christ, and plead with you, wherever you are in your marriage, or out of marriage, to not live your lives based not on your experiences but on God’s Word and in the Spirit of Christ.

Please ask yourself, “Am I doing all things Christian in my life and relationships?” and “Am I walking in the Spirit of newness of life each day?” If you can say “yes” to these two things then God has made you this guarantee, and all you have to do is believe it.

And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.
Romans 8:28

65 thoughts on “Christian Men Going Their Own Wrong Way

  1. Ken,

    So much of this rings familiar. And in a horrible way.

    I married a Christian (Catholic) girl – knew her since she was 17. We did not live together until we married seven years later. She came from a disordered family – much explosive anger, triangulation, enmeshment. Psychological and physical abuse. I strongly suspect sexual abuse also – although it would be decades before I learned of the world of Cluster B disorders…

    We openly (?) discussed the shortcomings of our own FOOs, and made a commitment to learn from them. Married in the Church, blessed with two daughters who were raised in the Church. Attained so much for two damaged souls.

    Twenty years in, wife appears to suffer mental/physical breakdown. Rebuffs (with venom) any attempts for her to see her doctor or speak to the (once loved) priest who married us. Begins an obsessive “BFF” friendship with a profane, unstable local woman (also married).

    Drags the girls along on this path – they provide a daily circus environment that I can not hope to match, nor am I able to prevent without further distancing them.

    I pray. I speak to MDs, psychologists, priests. The girls’ doctor, their school administrators, etc. Everyone wrings their hands, but nothing of substance. Nothing.

    Wife files for divorce. Welcome to no-fault – something that was not law when I got married. No priests now, no vows, no Bible verses. Surrounded by non-Christians who were collectively making $1,000/hr being led by a now possessed spirit.

    They laughed at me. Laughed. “He is using the delay and pray strategy”. Laughed the laugh of the evil.

    My fortune drained, my daughters (24, 21) I have not seen or heard in almost four years. I attend funerals for friends who have lost a child – the most heartbreaking events. And I feel the most perverse sense of envy. I had no ceremony, no outpouring of community support. No cocoon of love. I just went home alone wondering what had happened. I don’t even have a grave to pray and cry over. I pathetically dig for internet mention of my children – I see them hugging their mother’s lesbian lover. I see the support system for that behavior. Like a knife. Slow but sure.

    During one of my many (very many) discussions with a favorite priest, I suggested the current climate was akin to leading lambs to slaughter. Perhaps I could speak at the next Pre Cana class about the perils of the current legal climate? He just shook his head in sadness, said “that wouldn’t be very good for business”.

    No-fault divorce has destroyed the institution of marriage. It is easier to “get out of” a marriage than your cell phone contract. And there is a system in place to accept, encourage and reward the destruction of families and children. How repugnant .

    MGTOW? Something I think very few ever desired. But something that many have embraced for simple survival. I understand it so well. Me? I am now in a loving relationship with a woman who I have known for decades. Neither of us expected this and take it as God’s gift. But we are both to our sixth decade, this is not the biblical marriage that sustains and nourishes the world with children. And she feels my pain and supports me. There is plenty of pain to go around.

    Sorry for the stream of consciousness, but this brings so much to the surface. To speak of the glory of marriage without explaining the laws and statistics underlying it just seems wrong. I went into it with blind devotion and have suffered mightily for it. Yes, I would hope to prevent others from my fate.

    Peter

    1. I think your response was measured, from the heart and will minister to so many, as it sure resonated with me. I am still married, though now live in Australia, while the rest of my family (wife and two kids) live in Canada. I do see the point of the article, but lament the fact that it really fails to address the horrible reality out there in these days of no-fault divorce and rewards for any woman who wants to divorce-rape her man. If you have found some healing, good on you. God bless, J.E.

      1. There are so, so many blogs out there for men in your situation. But there are very few blogs that teach women biblical womanhood. Men complaining bitterly about women on here only harms women like me who are struggling in difficult marriages and are sorely needing biblical guidance and encouragement.

          1. And the sites that exist are in danger of being shut down as forces seek to label them hate speech. See r:\MGTOW as an example, the de-platforming of so much YouTube content, the brigading efforts against Avoiceformen. These forums may not be polite, but they do speak to truth of the modern secular legal system.

            John 8:32 guides us well, the truth must be faced if we are to learn and grow from it.

            And while my personal experience is by definition anecdotal, I know this is an equal opportunity disaster. Take a spin through Karen Woodall’s (she in in UK) blog regarding parental alienation – you will see both fathers and mothers who have had their hearts ripped out.

          2. According to something I was reading on Reddit, many of the MGTOW blogs are being shut down because of the white supremacist and promoting rape of women content. To be the best of my knowledge, white supremacy and rape aren’t part of MGTOW, but that is the kind of men some of these blogs attract, and that is why they are being shut down. MGTOW itself may not be hate speech, but white supremacy and promotion of rape certainly is. If the moderators of those blogs kept those kinds of topics away, the blogs would be able to continue.

            One blog you may enjoy is Sharkly’s “Laughing at Feminism”.

        1. KAK, there are actually very few sites that have any balance at all. Most are about how to do “damage control” after a wife swallows the feminist kool-aid, and goes on the offensive. Thank God that there are a few “voices in the wilderness” like Lori. I’m just afraid that very few women today are listening. It just isn’t politically correct, and the liberal demons are strong.

    2. There are many parallels with my own experience. I married a Christian woman who became a Catholic, like me, during our engagement. Our courtship had been in Christian youth group where she said all the right things, and seemed to desire a Christian marriage. We married in a Catholic ceremony where the intention was “for life”. This was the only situation I would consider raising children in. Ten years later she had completely abandoned the faith and also found a new “relationship” with a non-Christian man. She was adamant that this was “the real thing”. I realised I was absolutely helpless! All the things she had promised, and which had been the basis for me marrying her, would be worthless in family court. As a woman, she held all the cards. I had to scrounge and compromise for every bit of contact with the kids. Also, I was personally devastated, but somehow had to keep going. The damage to our three children has been lifelong, starting from when their “happy family” was torn apart, with mum in high spirits and brazenly confident of what she was doing, without the slightest remorse or sense of betraying them or the commitment she made me.

      When is the Church going to wake up to what marriage really means for men?

      1. I do hope the church wakes up and starts teaching both sides of of Biblical roles of marriage and not just “husband’s love your wives” and if that does not work, you must not be loving her. That is what I was told.

        Unfortunately, my guess is that the vast majority of those who call themselves Christian women who divorce their husbands apart from true abuse, are not saved, or so immature they have no real relationship with the Word.

      2. This article is soooooo needed. Men have become the fodder for activist courts. Liberalism and feminism are a twin cancer. It will be interesting to see how this pendulum swings back. I don’t think women are going to much like the child they are breast-feeding once it grows up. Put me strongly in the MGTOW camp for the rest of my life. I’ll never let another woman near my wallet.

    3. My heart breaks for you and the other men who have suffered as you have from wife and system. Our hope is to strengthen men and women in marriage and to be there for them when things are failing. I wish I had more answers for the many men still in marriages and fighting for them. Satan is trying to destroy marriage, and in turn, all the next generation of godly children. We cannot allow him to win with God’s power and grace.

      So happy that you have now a wonderful wife and a solid love.

  2. The real solution is to do away with “child” support, “maintenance”, or any other mandatory payment from one ex-spouse to the other. And free all men currently in custody for non-payment (unless they’ve committed any real crimes). If women can’t get money from a divorce they won’t divorce. You’ll see the divorce rate drop by a factor of ten. Of course the unwanted side effect is far fewer women will marry, and those who do will “marry” other women. But cutting off the gravy train would solve the problem at hand.

      1. Great article, Ken. This blog has turned me off recently because some of the frequent commenters make it seem like women are evil and are to be blamed for everything and you can tell they are very bitter. I really appreciate Lori’s ministry and enjoy her YouTube videos. I still read this blog almost daily and it’s been a blessing to my life ❤️

        1. Yes, that is why Lori asked me to address it, and I believe she will now police those negative comments more. We are about love and marriage, even as our hearts break for these men.

        2. to Isadora: I may well be one of the commenters of whom you speak. I admit to a reasonably-well controlled amount of bitterness, but not at women, per se. My anger is precisely reserved for the Spirit of Feminism and the perversions it has caused. I would agree that Ken and Lori are champions in fighting that spirit and promoting healing. It is too true, though, that the battlefield is strewn with a great many more broken men today, dead at the hand of the one they sold themselves into servitude for. So, please, forgive a little well-earned bitterness, and stick around. It’s a good place to hang.

    1. As a child of parents who divorced, I can tell you that there was no gravy train. My mother struggled like you would not believe to keep a roof over our heads and food on the table. To this day in her eighties she struggles financially. My mother didn’t get child support for years until she finally went to the county attorney, and she did not get any back payments. She also never has received one penny of alimony. My Dad is the one who filed.

        1. I have also known people who had to leave over some very ugly situations. They also did not get any gravy train. While many things in their lives either improved or didn’t get worse, financially they struggled and suffered. Divorce doesn’t improve the life of either spouse. Nobody wins. It might, in some cases, prevent some situations from getting worse, but it certainly doesn’t improve anything.

  3. Imo state child support disincentivizes marriage & is just another government encroachment on the man’s sense of duty…always a harm to women.

  4. I’m a 58yr old widower and not a MGTOW.

    BUT…….

    I can say my search for a wife is getting dimmer every day because of not only what I hear but what I see with my own 2 eyeballs.

    I can understand how a man can say he will not get married under the current laws and regulations on marriage. When 80% of divorces are filed by women, a lot of times it is the woman committing adultery, by law gets a LARGE amount of the man’s financial assets and child support for 18+ years for a child that may not even be his. 30% of children are calling the wrong man dad because the woman got pregnant by another man and then knowingly makes her man think it is his. That is 1 of every 3 children!

    Then both the court system AND the preachers back the adulteress woman, blame the man for the woman’s CHOICE of committing the sin of adultery, ostracize the man and ruin him financially. Men living in their cars because his house, his children were RIPPED from him and little money left to him after the court takes the “woman’s share”

    I am 58 and looking for a wife in the age range of 50-58 yrs old so I am not looking outside my league. I had thought my late wife was just an exception with her adulteries and I just had “bad luck”

    Sadly it is hahaha!

    I had thought women in my age range would have some maturity in Christianity and wisdom. Unfortunately that is not true.

    Basically the first thing I am asked is if I make $100,000 a year, how big will my pension be and if I own a big expensive house. She is wanting to see big $ signs in me. I can honestly answer nope, nope and nope. She is not looking at me as a husband but as another pay out like she got from her ex husband.

    I have 20-30 year old woman expressing interest in me. I know that game too. The 20yr old gets pregnant, I owe her 18 yrs of child support, she gets my pension and then when I die in a few years, her children also draw social security off my SS. That sounds like a great deal for me, right?

    Am I bitter because my late wife committed adultery on me many times with up to 5 guys that I am aware of? NOPE!

    I am angered that she defrauded me for many years out of what God says was mine. She denied me sex but was giving it to other guys often and steamy. She had told me that there was only one other guy before me in her previous 35 yrs before I married her. Found out that was a lie. We had no sex before marriage. Once married it was on her terms, lights out and had to last no more than 3 minutes or I was just being an animal. Found out that didn’t apply to the other men she was with. Body parts could only be called by the correct medical names. That didn’t apply to the other men either. Counseling with THREE different preachers. ALL THREE – it was basically all my fault.

    So I am not bitter, but angry. At the laws and the preachers that encourage and allow a woman to do these things.

    Women 30-40yrs old that had sex with 10+ men already and a lot of them talk about several lesbian encounters.

    The women may bring an incurable STD to the marriage bed. She brings all of her past sexual partners to the marriage bed. There is a lot of theory that all of the woman’s past sexual partners leave some of his DNA in her and any future children with her husband would get some of the other man’s DNA. Think why “royalty, the kings of old” DEMANDED a virgin wife, so that his children were pure. Also God says that if a man goes into a harlot, they become joined as one. That would also apply to women having several men besides her husband, she would be still joined with each of those other men.

    But my chance of finding a wife is fast running out with the way Satan has women feasting on his lies and women’s chose to sin and be feminist.

    So again, not bitter but a righteous anger on what is happening.

    1. Amen. For 17 years I was in a similar fix. Told by pastors it was my fault my wife didn’t love or obey me. I asked them what I was doing wrong or what my sin was. None had an answer. The most I ever got was we will pray. Words only no accountability for my wife. It all came to a raging head due to physical and emotional abuse I had had enough. The pastor came over wanted to call me down… I was the one being pushed to the ground (I’m a disabled OIF vet late 30s) and mentally abused. He asked if he left if she would be safe she said yes. Then he turned to me and asked if she… not me would feel/be safe. This after I had to flee the house one night with nothing but my pants in very cold weather. I demanded he leave and have left the church that I was a long time member and very faithful attendee. At home I put my foot down and said things will change NOW or we would be getting a divorce. It took 3mo but things slowly changed. The church is failing men all across the nation. Three years later I can say things are not perfect but the last two years have been the best of our 21 years this may.

    2. “30% of children are calling the wrong man dad because the woman got pregnant by another man and then knowingly makes her man think it is his. That is 1 of every 3 children!”

      I have seen this statistic stated this way and it is misleading. There was a study where paternity tests did return such a rate, but it was only in cases where paternity was legally challenged. Assuming (?) that only a small percentage of overall births fall into that sorry category, perhaps 10%, would make the offensive number more like 1-in-30, rather than 1-in-3. Again, I have no clue what the real number is, but 1-in-3 borders on sensationalism and often serves to derail the facts at hand.

      That said, I am a strong supporter of DNA testing for all births – the technology has progresses tremendously and would do much to discourage even the minimal percentage of outliers. Another way to return to John 8:32.

  5. Ken. As a Christian husband, I am disturbed at how you always blame Lori’s issues for all the troubles in your marriage. This is not the first time you have written about how difficult she was. Man up, dude! Take your own responsibility. God holds you responsible for your family, not her. Stop shaming her. If she wants to tell us her sin in the past or present, that’s her’s to share. Not yours. And don’t hide behind “I should have demanded her submission” as your own sin. Frankly, you don’t need to share any of this. Women are not the sole cause of marital problems as you and Lori declare. As a pastor, I see men hiding behind women all the time. Time to man up.

    1. I have been VERY open about my part in the difficulties in my marriage, Joe, and Ken has shared his part too. Neither of us were perfect. In fact, far from it BUT he was raised in a godly home with a godly, submissive mother and a godly father. He never remembers them arguing! He had an amazing example of how a marriage should be so he had no idea what to do with me. My parents gave me no example at all. All I saw was arguing. There are many verses about arguing and contentious wives. God’s solution to this? It’s better to live on the corner of a roof and I am sure he felt like doing this at times.

    2. I am sorry this struck you the wrong way, but you must be relatively new to this page, or you are trolling us… and are a fake, if you believe in any way that I am shaming my wife. Our issues are of public record. The fact is that my marriage could have been changed far sooner if pastors that I went to had stopped blaming me and instead been willing to point my wife back to God’s Word as the basis by which we could restore our marriage. That in “all thing Christian” is indeed command for a wife to live in submission to her husband which could have solved 90% of our problems.

      But pastors are afraid to teach all of God’s Word, preferring instead to blame the husband. After all, aren’t all marriages fundamentally based on a 50-50% proposition there are two sinners joining together, so each must have an equal weight of sin in the marriage?

      Here is where they and perhaps you are wrong. Just like a business and any enterprise works no matter how imperfect it is, it does so because of clear lines of authority. When the lines of authority get messed up, it is here that confusion reigns.

      If you for an instant believe that I could have been the most godly of saints and my marriage would have somehow worked God’s way, you are mistaken. It is that feminist bent in my wife that made her difficult, that need to control and be in control. For me to appeal to that as I speak to men who are fearful of marriage is not inappropriate. It shows them that I was not immune to the feminist virus.

      I am not trying to put my wife down, but between you and me, her preference is that I not go into my many faults and missteps as the fear, and an appropriate one, is that when women here that the husband is not perfect, their proven pattern, which is that of my wife, is to wait until “he loves me as Christ loves the Church” before I can be submissive. Her preference is to keep women focused on their responsibilities before the Lord, and this post was her request to try and address these MGTOW that seem to enjoy her blog, but are giving out unchristian and unfruitful thoughts on marriage.

  6. I often tell MGTOW, especially Christians, that they should not give up on marriage as an institution, but simply protect themselves. This usually means that unless they move to another country or look far and wide indeed, that they will end up not marrying. But they should improve themselves as much as they can, live the gospel, be kind to others, even those who don’t deserve it, and live as Christ lived. Be open to marriage if they can find a woman who can show that she is safe. Not perfect, but safe. Very few can. I finally found one I felt I could trust, and we’ve been married for seven years now, and it’s been a bumpy ride, but we love and trust each other, and always look to Christ for our example, and want to teach our son to protect himself as well.

    1. Thanks Samuel. I am with you… men do need to make much wiser choices, but the world is falling apart as marriages fall apart. It is so sad.

  7. Dear Lori and Friends, mgtow is nothing but shrill feminism wearing britches (oh wait, dudes are now wearing dresses now…well anyway), divorce isn’t like changing handbags. Both men and women get dragged through the mire. The unfortunate fact is, there’s like 5% of the population who are just plain rotten to the core. And guess what! These reprobates buy groceries, cars, get married and have kids.

    1. The problem on both sides is when the spouse is truly being victimized. You are right that it is not just one sided, but it does seem men are getting the short end of the division of assets and custody. I believe the one who files for the divorce should have a greater penalty unless they can show true abuse. Barring that, maybe they should get nothing but shared custody and shared costs for the children.

  8. At the risk of piling on. I counsel my son and every other young man to exercise extreme caution regarding women today. Given the state of affairs many posters already listed, men must be very careful. In Solomon’s time, a virtuous woman was worth more than rubies (not common). What must it be now?

    Proverbs 5 New King James Version (NKJV)
    5 My son, pay attention to my wisdom;
    Lend your ear to my understanding,
    2 That you may preserve discretion,
    And your lips may keep knowledge.
    3 For the lips of an immoral woman drip honey,
    And her mouth is smoother than oil;
    4 But in the end she is bitter as wormwood,
    Sharp as a two-edged sword.
    5 Her feet go down to death,
    Her steps lay hold of hell.
    6 Lest you ponder her path of life—
    Her ways are unstable;
    You do not know them.

    Now for all the good ladies out there, please don’t take this personally. There will be a day you see Jesus face to face and hear Him say “Well done good and faithful servant”

    1. See that’s valid. But encouraging your son and other young men to marry young could solve the issue altogether. Marrying young means neither husband nor wife will be set in their viral feminist ways. Its is easier to council a young 21/20 year old couple of who only one has experience of college/work etc than a 31/29 year old couple of whome both have masters degrees, work experience and life experience.

      There will be less MGTOW if couples married younger.

      They don’t need to be warned off eachother. Because for every conservative father warning off his son from marriage is a feminist mother warning her daughter off marriage as well as encouraging further study and work.

      Now you tell me how this fear mongering can bare fruit? As a teacher in a predominantly Muslim suburb I have had some young Muslim women tell me they will marry immediately after school. Some have someone they are seeing, others have let their family decide. These young women will be young wives and mothers by 19-21. They will not encounter feminism at university or elsewhere. They are already aware of their place in a marriage. This is the strength of the Muslim community. Young, devout couples.

      Now if Christian fathers suggest to their sons they could marry their High School sweetheart and live in the garage while they establish themselves, on the condition as a couple they attend church? Well you are encouraging a culture shift. Young couples need support, patient support.

      Eastern countries like India have a low divorce rate. Why?They live in joint families. Young couples live with parents. There are elders to council. They pray and worship with the family, this in their culture involves cooking and eating together. Caring for sick elderly parents, or nieces and nephews etc. In this arrangement young couples have family support.

      Young marriage is good and can be fruitful. But parents have a bigger role to play in this. It can’t just be oh find a partner, we will pay for the wedding and where will you be moving?

      Make marriage desirable for your son!

    2. Excellent Sean!
      Too many parents are not coaching their sons and daughters well on marriage. And the costs of a failed marriage is huge as can be seen from the comments. It is heartbreaking.

  9. Thank you for this post!

    I, too, stopped reading this blog because the bitter MGTOW comments on here blaming everything on women, disgusted me. There are plenty of blogs out there for those men to commiserate with each other. But those comments are the last things women struggling in difficult marriages want to read.

    Thank you Lori for your continual encouragement to women to do their part, no matter what.

  10. I think that as a matter of urgency, Christians, both men and women need to be disabused of the fanciful notion that suffering in this life is avoidable. No amount of spouse vetting can guarantee a successful marriage, yet God says it is not good for the man to be alone (in fact in 1 Timothy 4:1-3 one of the doctrines of demons to come in the latter days, is forbidding marriage) No matter how obedient a woman is in being a keeper at home, submissive to her husband in everything etc; she is not guaranteed exemption from widowhood, an adulterous husband or involuntary divorce – yet God calls women to be keepers at home, to love their husbands and children (failure to do so is said to bring about the blaspheming of God’s name). The MGTOW man’s response to suffering in this life is akin to that of the young lady who in the attempt to hedge against marital failure; takes out exorbitant student loans to earn academic qualifications, spends her youth climbing the career ladder only to find in the end, that the opportunity cost is unbearable and regrettable.

    We need to chose to obey God without trying to put safety nets of our own making in place first. God is our only refuge in this life and in the life hereafter.

    We need to bear up under suffering knowing that God is sovereign over all His creation. He sees that cheating spouse, He sees that gate keeping wife, He sees that porn addicted husband, He sees that contentious wife; God knows it all and He is in control of it all. Let’s go to God’s Word and see what He says to do in each circumstance rather than creating our own “response tactics” which are diametrically opposed to God’s Word.

    Strive to obey God even in circumstances where you are ill used and let God use that to fashion you further into the image of His Son.

    So then, those who suffer according to God’s will should commit themselves to their faithful Creator and continue to do good. 1 Peter 4:19

  11. Unfortunately with Dalrock shutting his doors it seems like some of his users might have made the transfer over here. I can see why they would. There are precious few sites that actually care about women’s souls instead of their feelings.

    Heck I’m one of those former Dalrock users that come here just as a reminder that there is still people willing to speak the truth of the bible when it comes to men and women’s roles in marriage and society.

    For anyone here who has been put off by their comments or the hurt they express please be kind to them. I’m not saying that this post or any responses here are unkind but please just remember that these men usually have no support network. Their churches have failed them and likely abandoned them. They likely have few friends and the ones they do will likely side with the wife if she knows how to play the game. Their children have been torn from them, they’ve lost their house and they are paying for the privilege of going through it all.

    Heck my own mother recently accused me of wanting turn my daughter into a barefoot pregnant moron and told me she was praying against my influence with my daughter simply because I told her my goal as a father is not to get her through college but instead to have her be bible believing, kind, modest, and focus on getting married early and having kids if that is what her husband wants.

    When I was put through the divorce meat grinder Dalrock’s site gave me the knowledge and understanding of what was going on in society to see the perverse incentives we have setup. This site though gave me hope. Not hope for myself, but hope that there are some women out there that manage to avoid Satan’s trap for them and that if the Lord blesses me even more that my daughter might avoid it also.

    Remember this isn’t Men vs Women but Christians vs Satan. So alittle kindness goes a long way in showing these hurting people the Lords grace, forgiveness, love, and hope.

    1. Well said Darksbane. The reason Lori asked me to write the post is to try and address the comments that come from men that are not favorable to marriage. These comments may be apropos on a men’s teaching site, but this page is primarily to train Titus 2 women.

      I know that TTW appreciates the support she gets from the men, but would prefer if the men remained supportive of her work without dragging down the women readers who are pursuing marriage and godliness. I know that is not their intent, but some of the women have expressed this even in this set of comments, so I believe TTW will be policing the comments more. Any help you can give is appreciated :).

      We can’t say a million times how sorry we are for the plight of these men, but we also believe in a God who will work all things together for good for those who love Him and will follow His good and godly ways.

  12. This is so sad. I was a guy who had to wait till I was almost 30 to get married. I never bothered dating anybody. I was to the point of remaining single or settling for a woman with kids. Then one Sunday morning the hottest chick I had ever seen walked in front of me into my church. She had come to visit as a guest and she was so shy and scared of the big building (she is from a very small church) that she actually turned around to leave. My mother and I had her come sit with us, and I admit I talked to her the whole entire service. Gave her my number, she called me two weeks later, we started dating, got married and now have a beautiful baby girl.

    My wife has a college degree, she received a full ride scholarship, graduated top in her class, was a debt free, tattoo free virgin when we married as well. I save myself for her too. She could have continued working and by now be making way more money than me, but before we married we discussed and she said she wanted to stay home after we got married and stay home with any children we would be blessed to have, and she was willing to have the less paycheck. Her mom had stayed home with her as well, and she was used to the bare basics. I agreed with this. (or I would be a house husband ) She takes care of the baby, house, errands, and I am a very, very, very sexually satisfied man. So men, these women still exist today and in America as well, where I live. I just wish I would have meet her sooner so I could have loved her longer.

    Don’t give up on the prospect of marriage. It’s worth it.

    My younger brother has since found his wife too. She is our baby’s God mother.

    To top it off as far as outside appearances go, my brother and I like the same body style of women, we both landed women way out of our leagues according to the worlds standards, from the area, and we have never been happier.

    1. Yay Martin! You are breathe of fresh air, but I could add many more stories like yours including my sons and their gorgeous, stay at home, wonderful brides. When things are done God’s ways it can be so wonderful, and when sin enters the equation from either spouse, the other spouse, kids and Christianity is damaged.

      Keep going strong! God says marriage is good and it sure can be when it is going the right way. It is awful when it is not.

      1. Thanks man
        She’s my rock, the family glue on earth, I’m so glad she came to my church to visit or I never would have met her.
        But I will say that we don’t do our marriage exactly like this site does, we work as a team. This virus has thrown off our team efforts.
        my wife is the daughter and granddaughter of preachers, she plays the piano and sings in church, I will not take that from her. God blessed her with that talent and she gets better every year.
        I absolutely love her in yoga pants, finally got her into them last year. I don’t like her in dresses.
        If she is tired, I don’t push her for intimacy or sex, it’s much more fun and enjoyable when we are both refreshed
        I don’t like my wife doing all the heavy yard work, she is willing and has done too much of it, but since having the baby I’ve gotten her to stop doing it
        We have a new house now so she has a furnace, no more wood or coal, and I had cabinets cut out and a dishwasher installed.
        If I made enough money I would hire a maid to clean the house, so she could concentrate on piano and baby and school work
        My wife is currently in school online to get the other part of her studies she didn’t do before, she only did the one degree, then she will be working from home
        I currently want my daughter to be in the school up the road from us or in a private Christian school. The public school my wife went to had prayer group every morning in the library before class and it continued at least until her younger sister graduated, that was at least 10 years
        Marriage is great, but you have to wait for the right person from God. It was hard waiting till I was 30 but well worth the wait

  13. As I read the comments on this blog, I realized a strange pattern: a lot are Catholic women and/or lesbian women…They are following if only their sinful flesh & do not fear God’s law.
    —>MEN, look for & marry a TRUE BIBLE BELIEVING WOMAN… Forget ‘religious labeling’. This pains my heart to see so many men suffering but they have allowed so many red flags to slip through. Read Proverbs:5 (KJV). You MUST be selective with women you settle with. There are hints (as proverbs:5 indicates). These “strange women” are abundant; which is why you as a man of God need to choose diligently. Perhaps this link will help:

    https://www.whatchristianswanttoknow.com/what-does-it-mean-to-be-a-strange-woman/

    1. You’re so right, Stephanie. The problem, however, is that there are so few women who meet this essential criterion that many men ultimately just stop trying to find the elusive unicorn. They come to a realization at some point that they face a choice of either settling for a churchian or non-believing woman, or spending the rest of their lives as incels. Given our hardwiring as men, the prospect of of lifelong involuntary celibacy is simply not an option for most of us, so, much like those who are compulsive voters who go to the polls on Election Day holding theiir noses and voting in dismay for “the lesser of two evils,” men take the plunge into marriage knowing, at least viscerally, that they’re courting danger, but knowing also that the alternative is even more intolerable. “Caught between Scylla and Charybdis,” as the Ancients would say.

      And as a rejoinder to the inevitable response to the above: No, Christian men are NOT “called to singleness” (i.e.; involuntary celibacy) simply because women have chosen en masse to renounce their God-given roles and mock Jesus by living as harlots. Such an assertion is simply another example of the modern “church’s” placing upon men the responsibility of atoning for women’s sins.

      1. Great point of view. In the case of having ‘slim pickings’ I would just try to live Godly and ask God himself. Pray pray, and pray. Volunteer, get established in a solid Bible believing Church..I’m sure that’s the best path for a Christian man looking.

        A HUGE problem is that parents do not rear their children up to follow Jesus and instead allow them to do as they may (following their flesh)..And once these children are grown…Well we all know whats happened. So sad

  14. I’m curious as to wether or not these men observed not just how their soon to be wife treated their father, but how the mother in law treated her husband and overall family dynamic. And what influenced her, the kind of friends she had etc. My husband told me when he first saw me at church, a bunch of old people asked him if he had noticed me and that I was such a ‘godly’ and ‘spiritual’ girl. He, at the time was a Bible college student and a command man personality. I said all the right things and I felt my true desire was to follow him and God. Yet my mother while very popular was married to a difficult man was not backward in coming forward in her criticism of him. And quite bitter. Which in turn had her children be bitter with him. Neither of my parents regularly cracked open a Bible. Despite being regular church attendees. I only remember my father sitting up in bed with his Bible open on his lap, fast asleep. ( My father is mentally ill and has been long before my mother even knew he existed) and it is true, he was and still is difficult and his mental clarity and stability rapidly deteriorating. But, had my husband taken into account my parents relationship not just me and my reputation which, turned out to be more complex in the end, whether or not he would of still married me. It’s not just how a potential future spouse treats her father. But how you’re future mother in law treats her husband and siblings treat their father. What their families doctrine is. If they crack open their Bible sand pray and read together as a family. (Their prayers having some substance) if this wasn’t taken into account or was an afterthought, I’m not surprised a wife has gone awry. But then, there are always some who completely take a man from out of left field and surprise everyone. Feminism is an abominable thing.

    1. Great points Meg that need to be taught to young women and men alike to find the right spouse. I guess the sad part is that there are so many wrong ones out there now, even in the Church. We must approach marriage with a remnant mentality that there are only a few true Believers and followers of Christ, but it only takes one who we are to marry.

  15. I’m saddened by the comments from men who have been hurt and/or feel that marriage is a risk, but I’m also saddened by some of the comments from women in response to these men. It is certainly discouraging to read the comments from the men and yes, this blog is for Biblical womanhood, but these men are also hurting and need prayer and maybe they (if not too stubborn to except it) need encouragement as well. At first I was alarmed and troubled, wondering if it was even worth it to desire marriage anymore, but now it makes me want to have a man to *truly* love and show compassion toward. It makes me desire even more to become a Godly woman and ensure I never treat a man how these women treated their husbands. And even if I never get married, I would like to grow in the Lord and love the men in my life and around me, like my dad. My heart aches to hear these things and I’m so sorry to everyone who has been hurt in these comments.

    1. Dion’ya
      Agreed. I feel for these men. I only seek to understand. It’s sad their plight is becoming commonplace. It challenges me to be the wife I know my husband desires.

    2. I guess this was part of our hope in writing this Dion’Ya, to think that maybe a few women who read the post will think twice about the damage they may be doing to their husband in a divorce. Thanks for the comment!

  16. I disagree with the statement marriage is “very good”. Yes, it was so before the fall. After that there’s has been a constant struggle between man and woman; the battle of the sexes far predates feminism. The only difference: now men are shamed if they expect any biblical standard of behavior of Christian women. I applaud Lori for making it her goal to instruct women to follow NT instructions, thank you so much!

    The NT is very clear that marriage is coming with a lot of troubles, and it is preferred to NOT marry, if you can control your sexual desire.

    “To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single as I am. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion. ”

    ” Yet those who marry will have worldly troubles, and I would spare you that.”

    “The unmarried man is anxious about the things of the Lord, how to please the Lord. But the married man is anxious about worldly things, how to please his wife, and his interests are divided. And the unmarried or betrothed woman is anxious about the things of the Lord, how to be holy in body and spirit. But the married woman is anxious about worldly things, how to please her husband. I say this for your own benefit, not to lay any restraint upon you, but to promote good order and to secure your undivided devotion to the Lord. ”

    1 Cor 7

    1. You forgot to add verse 6: “But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.” God is the Creator of marriage. He said it was not good for a man to be alone so He created a help meet for Him. He called marriage good.

    2. Paul, there are still millions of men who are not suffering at the hands of their wives, and will cry crocodile tears over her is she dies before they do. We love our wives dearly. Imperfect creatures, yes, but so are we as men.

      But beyond this, there is a destiny for most men and it is in passing one’s name down to the next generation of godly offspring. It is a God given destiny and Paul’s words do not trump this mission in life for most of us.

      I am so sorry you for your troubles, but I still believe that for most men it is better to love and lose her than to have never loved a wife. And yes, the suffering of the loss is great, but there are reasons men risk life and limb for the things we do to achieve our destinies.

      1. I’ve come to understand the NT instructions for submission to be the only effective counter action against the curse put on Eve. Christian men and women are called to “revert” that curse by actively following God’s original plan. Unfortunately, not even Christian wives are doing that nowadays. Lori is one of the few, and given the amount of flak she receives, it shows not many share her (biblical) view.

        But even with such an attitude, not marrying is still the preferred course according to the apostle. True, marriage is not forbidden. True, if you cannot control your sexual desires, it’s still better to marry. But it is only better to marry IF indeed marriage will result in satisfying those sexual desires. And that happens only if both spouses adhere to what the apostle wrote in the first few verses of the chapter; each spouse has authority over the body of the other for sexual satisfaction, and spouses should not withhold that from each other. Else marriage has even for persons struggling with sexual desire little added benefits. On the contrary, in that case it will be the worst of both worlds. Which is the situation MANY Christian men will find themselves in, while still being bound by the marital obligations.

        It’s a big shame churches in general do not actively teach nor uphold such a biblical view on marriage.

  17. Bitterness? Setting aside all of the emotion this article seems to conclude with it overlooks the most obvious reasons so many single men are MGTOW and why moving forward more and more will do so. More Christian men will as well. It no Longer makes logical sense to marry. Why? Men have no reason to marry. Western society, the State, the Church and women themselves have taken the reasons for men to marry away.

    It’s about reputation.

    First, marriage as a legally enforceable contract no longer exist for men. As you seem to be aware, a woman can divorce for any reason and use the court system to destroy a man that was a decent husband. Many professing Christian women and their churches have abused this system. It’s their reputation.

    Would you encourage women to participate in a legal system that routinely abuses them severely? Why wouldn’t you tell them to refuse to participate until the abuse stops? Why would women stop abusing men as long as men continue to take the abuse?

    Regardless, If marriage did exist, what is the reason why men would participate? If you’ve read your Bible you should already know that sex is the fundamental reason. See Gen 2.24. Mark 10, Mathew 19, 1 Corinthians 7 (whole chapters). So again, why marry? Are women not aware of their reputation? While single most women, including profession Christian women, are sexually involved with numerous men. Sometimes the numbers of sexual partners are staggering. Wives however reputedly Withhold sex from the husbands that were foolish enough to marry them. Sex in marriage is a Weapon to punish or device to Manipulate Husbands by wives. This until they gain a statistical average of about 40 pounds and then the husband no longer cares. Again, it’s reputation.

    I could go on about all the nagging and contentiousness that is the reputation of wives. All the examples found in Proverbs that were completely passed over in your article, even as you cherry-picked the Bible to flatter women ignoring the balance and not rightfully dividing the word of truth.

    Until the rebellion of women in this society is directly confronted the reputation of women as unsuitable for marriage will continue to grow worse and worse. Tell me all day that there are women who are the exception. There is still not enough reasons to take the chance on marriage. The reputation stands.

    1. There will always be a remnant of those who love the Lord and His ways. God promises us that. Find a woman who is part of the remnant. Marriage and bearing/raising children will always be a part of God’s plan for His children. no matter how wicked culture becomes.

  18. I suppose we’re back to the Proverbs 31 Woman then. The most elementary words in that passage to me are “who can find?”. Her price is above rubies because she was very rare even in that God fearing society of Israel millenniums ago. Now? 50 years into feminism and the sexual revolution? I can’t even find a church in my large city that preaches the Gospel. I don’t even look for a suitable wife anymore.

    I don’t identify as MGTOW because I’ve dated a lot for the purpose of finding a suitable wife. For reasons I will leave aside, it’s been easy for me to date and still is. It’s been very difficult to find someone I would actually want to marry. I think I’m probably done now. Christ himself said in Matthew 19/Mark 10 regarding staying single “any man that can hear it, let him hear it”. It’s just going to be the smart move until women in this society start owning the consequences of their bad choices. Not going to happen except in the margins.

    I don’t know what a society looks like where most men refuse to marry but I’m convinced we’re about to find out.

  19. It becomes clear to me that writer ken and many others and many others here have no clue to the psychology behind why men go MGTOW, and their “sympathy about their plight” is nothing more than what they think is polite lip service, containing no true empathy whatsoever. People who are more than willing to worship “Jesus” as the one-armed gift bestower so long as he doesn’t touch their suburban homes, their middle class lifestyles, or their “untouchable” entitlement programs.
    Something very much like MFTOW was predicted way back in the “mouse utopia” experiments of the 1960s and early 70s, with the emergence of the “beautiful ones” as the various mouse societies deteriorated.
    And guess what? MGTOW was predicted in the Bible. Revelations. Ever heard of the 144,000 ISRAELI MALE VIRGINS?
    It was a woman on another website who properly pointed out that all of us, men and women alike, are emotionally broken; and another woman (Karen Straugn-a female men’s rights activist;yes, they do exist) who postulated a connection between men who go MGTOW and past abuse from female narcissists.
    Some of you ladies out there getting the vapors and 8!+c#!ng about how these hurting individuals SHOULDN’T Be ALLOWED to espouse hate, when what you really mean is you don’t thing they should be allowed to feel AT ALL.
    Here’s a novel idea. Ever tried befriending one?Praying for one? Beng their friend even when you know they’re not yours and commit to be in it for the long haul? No, why do that when there’s the Sunday music presentation to consider?
    And you wonder why young people, men especially, walk out your church doors faster than you can attract them!
    Jesus was very explicit concerning the MAN who was robbed in the parable of the Good Samaratin. Two ignored him, one walking by on the other side of the road. Both essentially leaving him for dead.
    Yet some of you on this site are even worse: Stealing the man’s bloody clothing, kicking him in the crotch for good measure, and telling him to get up and “Man up. (He’s) not really hurt that bad.”
    Stop making your churches middle-class (only) marriage factories, treat your singles (both men AND women) better instead of like they’re “mostly-normal” lepers (unless they’re engaged, of course), and once again become what you’re intended to be: Tenders for the spiritually hurting.
    But I’m sure most of you would rather focus on what “they’re doing wrong.”
    That’s all I have to say.

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