Are Most Men Oppressed in the Churches?

Are Most Men Oppressed in the Churches?

Written By Ken

As we headed to church last Sunday, Lori told me about an article she had just read about how women are oppressed in the Churches because they are not allowed to preach or be in leadership. We reflected on how oppressed we are by the church we attend. Why would we go to a church where I don’t preach and am not an elder? Why is it that over 99 percent of those sitting in the congregation are not leading or preaching and half of them are men? Are these men oppressed too? What should we call this type of oppression? Perhaps the oppression that is happening in almost every organization in the world? The Oppression of Opportunity?

 I find it all a bit comical, yet alarmingly biblically ignorant when someone teaches that women are oppressed in the churches because they cannot lead or teach men. Why do they find God’s perfect order in the home and the Church so oppressive? Perhaps they are just women wanting once again a taste of forbidden fruit and unwilling to accept that what God says is good for them. But then, when I was shown the article I was shocked to learn it was a man espousing this crap of oppression and basing it on a set of lies and fallacies while claiming study and scholarship.

This man wants things to be different in Church leadership when he writes:
Consider that with 40 authors writing the Bible over a period of 1,450 years in several countries and multiple cultures, in various situations and in the Old and New Covenant, only one man seems to restrict women from leadership and teaching—the great apostle Paul.”

This is simply blatantly false! God created Adam first and then made Eve his Helper. From the very beginning, woman was made for man, not man made for woman. Then throughout the Bible, God regularly instituted men as the leaders. They were kings, prophets, patriarchs, and the entire cast of priests were all men. By any account, overwhelmingly male leadership is in every book of the Bible, not just coming from one author. There is no true biblical leadership position held by women in the Old Testament except for Deborah, and she arrives on the scene in the messed up time of Judges where “everyone did what was right in their own eyes.”

The minor exceptions only serve to prove the rule of almost 100 percent male leadership in the Bible. How about all of the authors of the Bible being men, the forerunner of Christ a man, Christ Himself, His twelve disciples/apostles, and all the elders of the Church throughout history until now, all men. Even when a disciple’s spot was open, the choice was only between two men. The women in leadership in the Bible are few and far between, and being the first to the tomb or announcing Christ is risen does not make one a leader or preacher.

How can anyone in their right mind overlook all of the overwhelming mountain of evidence that the Bible speaks almost exclusively of male leadership? Worse yet, this author claims to have spent hundreds of hours studying women in leadership in the Bible to prove his point.  Talk about missing the forest through the trees! Just like the Evolutionary Scientist who spends hours looking for the evolutionary links all the while missing the obvious that all the evidence shouts that his hypothesis of no Creator God is intellectually dishonest and false. This is someone who is grasping at straws to try to prove a position he has already assumed and is unrelenting in trying to hold onto it. So he will point to the .1 percent of exceptions to try and disqualify a clear set of commands from God.

Old Testament women were empowered to be prophetesses, judges, queens, and leaders.

Okay, we can name a number of very important women in the Bible but assigning leadership to any but Deborah is nebulous. Yet not one was King over Israel or High Priest or any type of priest. Do you recall a woman prophet recognized as a leader in the major and minor prophets? If you are arguing for putting women on the boards of Christian parachurch organizations, maybe you have a wrinkle of an argument we can discuss, but where in God’s Word and Church History do we find anything but a fraction of a percent exception to the rule of God’s design and commands for male leadership of Israel and His Church?

It is so frustrating having to waste time talking about minor exceptions when the clear rule is so clearly stated, “I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet” (1 Timothy 2:12). And the apostle appeals to the time before culture existed to make his argument for why men are to be the leaders. And why? “Because it was Adam who was formed first and the woman who was deceived” (1 Timothy 2:12-14). I am not making this stuff up but it is there in black and white. Oh yes, but that was Paul!

So can the apostle Paul be disqualified as the only one who taught male leadership? No way! Saint Peter taught that a wife was to be submissive to her husband and obey him, which would create an upside-down relationship for any man married to his leader in his church. Male leadership is primary all throughout the Word, if anyone who reads it cares to open up their eyes and acknowledge it. The early church and the rest of church history until feminism clearly acknowledged this fact and followed God’s clear instructions, again barring a few minor exceptions. And one should acknowledge that the apostle Paul, writing under the inspiration of the Spirit of God, has given us more than half of the Church’s doctrinal theology. So if you want to throw Paul out, you are left with very little understanding of what Christ has done for us or who we are in Christ Jesus.

If God wanted to restrict half the population from leading or teaching men (kind of a big deal, I think), then why are 39 authors virtually silent on the issue, while Paul seems specifically to restrict women?

Most men aren’t leading or teaching men but quietly following and listening in the Church. Are all who are not gifted with the gift of teaching oppressed? Why is it only “empowerment” to be leading and teaching men? This is feminist brainwashing at its best. And we have already disproven the false notion that the other 39 authors are silent on the matter, but have you ever considered that in most cases few authors re-state the obvious that men have been almost always the leaders in God’s story?

“And once more, why does Paul write to nine different churches or church leaders, but only restrict women in three locations? Why does Paul empower women in some places and limit them in others?”

And no, Paul was not “only restricting women in three locations” as we know his letters were being passed around from church to church. Besides, why would the apostle be expected to repeat himself on every issue in every letter with precious space of parchment and time of the scribe? But here is your proof that the restriction was for “all of the churches of the saints.” The apostle could not have been clearer that this applies to all.

“For God is not the author of confusion but of peace as in all churches of the saints let your women keep silence in the churches for it is not permitted unto them to speak but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.” (1 Corinthians 14:33, 35).

“I’d like to propose that the cultural context of the letters which restrict women is the key to understanding Paul’s instructions.”

At least in this argument he comes to the only intellectually honest defense of his position. That is not to say it is valid, but at least he has stopped lying to himself in getting to his conclusions. He wants Paul’s instructions to the Church to be placed under the “cultural” label to disqualify it. If it is cultural and we now live in a new Feminist culture, should not Feminism control the conversation and lead to changes in the Church?

The “cultural” argument is an argument from silence as there is zero proof for such an opinion, and that is all it is. One’s guess or hypothesis on a matter that the scriptures are not just silent but speak directly against. It’s a convenient opinion when the Word of God does not give you the answer you are looking for to call  it “cultural.”

Yet, there are some valid reasons to reject this opinion of “cultural” that is couched in pseudo-scholarship. First, have you ever noticed that when the apostle Paul is expressing an opinion that he is not certain is from God that he clearly states that this idea, like headcoverings, is not to be disputed but his thoughtful opinion on the matter and not a directive from the Lord. Pay special attention to what the apostle Paul says just after he commands women to be silent in the Church. He says that this is a clear command from God:

“If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord. But if anyone is ignorant, let him be ignorant” (1 Cor. 14:37).

Is this not the real problem with the modern church when it comes to many “Scot-Free” sins? Sexual promiscuity, premarital sex, homosexuality, drinking to excess, parenting without discipline, divorce, women dropping off their babies in daycare for most of the year, and the list goes on and on of what the Church wants to now call “cultural” and offer their opinions on what God should be thinking.  After all, it is so convenient to have the one word “cultural” wipe out almost anything you do not like that the Bible teaches, especially “submission to your husband.” It’s no wonder that some have decided that all that matters are the “Red Letters” of the Bible. Well, guess what? Neither do the words of Christ defend you.

God’s ways are perfect. They’re not restrictive in any way! If you love the Lord and His will, you are content with it and are thankful since you know that He knows best. When the Apostle Paul wrote that women are not to exercise authority over men in the church, to be silent in the churches, and that it’s shameful for them to speak in the churches, he did it for a reason. And the reason has nothing to do with trying to oppress women, but instead to protect women and protect His Church from disorder. It is the same reason God desires husbands to be heads of their homes and Christian wives to live in submission to their husbands. It is for the order that He desires to model the order of the Trinity and God’s created order in nature.

The God I know well and worship is not an author of confusion but speaks clearly to mankind through His Son and His Word.  He is not one who would allow a mistake of male leadership in Isreal and the Church, or for that matter throughout His-Story, and then all of the sudden be happy that modern woman has finally figured out that which He had left so unclear. Such an impotent God is not one that I or most of Christendom know as omnipotent, yet was somehow unable to communicate clearly His will for mankind and His Church until Feminism arrived. No way!  Especially not something so important as women in leadership ministry. He would have given us one verse, or one woman as a disciple, and not had Paul be as plain as day when he speaks to order in the churches.

Beyond this, whenever I hear of another Christian leader or teacher teaching this false doctrine I cringe, knowing that within a few years the hole they have now opened in their views of the inerrancy of the Bible will soon be larger and larger until there is little left for them to trust or believe in God’s perfect instruction manual. It almost always begins with, “That apostle Paul!” and ends with accepting a myriad of sins as acceptable, particularly their own sins. One cannot throw out the apostle Paul’s writings as cultural and stay true to the inerrancy of the Word.

Women we are NOT oppressed just because God wants to have male leadership in the Church and in the homes. We live in the most free country that has ever existed. Women go off to their jobs every day and never once think about how oppressed they are to be working for their boss who may be a man or woman. But in the churches, these women want to give you a victim mentality that is very insidiously destructive. “Just one bite of the apple; it’s only fair!”

Instead, learn who you are in Christ and that your value and worth come from HIM! His ways are good for you and the Church of God. They are beautiful, as we are free in Christ. But let us use our freedom to walk in a manner worthy of our calling in obedience to God’s Word. Be careful not to be pulled in by the lies that want to erode God’s Word and Ways.

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits.
Matthew 7:15, 16

43 thoughts on “Are Most Men Oppressed in the Churches?

  1. Ken,

    Awesome teaching. I’m going to print this and give it to the weekly men’s group I meet with.

    Shout it from the roof tops!

  2. I couldn’t get past the first two paragraphs of the article mentioned by Ken. I fully agree, the “culture” argument is used as a way to nullify God’s clear instruction, although it doesn’t change the truth.

  3. I would say that women are oppressed in the church, and in almost every aspect of life as well. They were not meant to live in a world with sin, and that creates pain for them to contend with.

    Men also are oppressed in every possible way. Women feel they can win at life if they become men, but the reality is that they will only find a whole new struggle waiting for them.

    If men having a stronger vessel can barely handle life, then it’s laughable that women think the key to their happiness in to have what men have. Men fail as men all the time, why would a women fair better? They won’t!

    No woman is going to avoid the pain God has placed upon us for our transgressions. No woman is going to win a battle that simply can’t be won. Feminism is nonsense, it fails to realize that pain is the universal human condition. No ideology or philosophy of life, will save us from pain and death.

    Only Jesus saves, and it comes at price.
    Women who rebel will have eternity to hate God for what He has done, but they will never change the truth or His ways.

    I pray for these lost women, may they accept the truth. Amen!

  4. Ken,
    The church today is in quite a sad state. My own son was forced out of his ministry job at a local church after many years of service. His heart has always been to serve, but now is being usurped by the women who have been placed in leadership positions and the other men that seemingly promote these women in leadership.

    We have watched as women have been allowed to take over leadership positions in this church and voice their strong opinions. They gossip and cause all types of division within the ministry. One even had the audacity to say to him, “Do you have a problem with women?” This is a church that has grown very large.

    Unfortunately, like any profession where you connect with others throughout your profession, my son knows many in ministry throughout churches across the country who are facing this crisis of women leadership taking over the church. For him it is a struggle to find a church that he can minister to, support his family, and not be lead by women in leadership positions in ministry.

    There are men in ministry that oppose women in leadership but they are being chastised by other men in ministry. From what I am gathering, some pastors and men in leadership don’t want to deny their daughters to lead ministry. I believe I heard John McArthur speak on how he has received such push back from this very issue throughout his ministry career.
    Thank you for this very timely article. I’m glad my own son is no longer in this church but I am most saddened by the state of affairs in our churches.

  5. Thanks, Sean!
    I would be all for woman teaching and leading in the Church if God said so, but he has said the opposite, and for His good reasons. I have never found something God teaches so clearly under such great attack in the Church by such superficial arguments and outright lying to them themselves. It kind of makes a little sense when a strong woman teacher desires the bite of this apple, but when a Christian man desires it for the Church it is nonsensical. Thank you for your encouragement.

  6. Thanks, Kevin, Agreed!

    The godly students of the Word need to step up and speak out instead of allowing the flow of culture to overtake the Word of God to make it into culture’s own image.

  7. As I said in the above comment to Kevin, the trend of culture is always trying to make God in its own image, instead of allowing God’s Word to be counter-cultural and proving those “who are not of this world” from those who are.

  8. Thanks Charity!

    May the Lord reach some with it to bring them back to loving His Word instead of trying to disqualify parts of it. To just trust God at His Word for all things of life and godliness without having to twist and pull it outside of its natural context and meaning. This is the Christian life.

  9. Thanks Trey!

    I wish I could say it is fun challenging another man’s work, but instead a necessary part of trying to help maintain the integrity of God’s Word.

  10. I am not sure where you see women oppressed in the Church as I have never seen oppression from not allowing someone to teach or be in authority. But yes, in the world, all can feel oppressed if they do not walk in the Spirit of God. For as you say the world is weighty, and even the strongest of bodies will falter and fail under its demands.

    But once mechanization arrived, much of the hard work of cooking, cleaning, shoveling, building, farming has been placed on the machine, so life ios far easier today than ever before. Perhaps too easy as we now need massive doses of drugs not to ease the world’s oppressions, bt to ease the mind that has too much time to be introspective and think about what they do not have as compared to others.

    Herein is the pain of oppression to many today, “you get to teach, preach, and be a boss, and I do not!” Why can’t I be a rocket scientist even if I could not get through college? Why can’t I be rich even if I have not worked hard for it?”

    The oppression of opportunity.

  11. Churches are always walking a line between trying to be relevant to their culture while at the same time not violating God’s clear Word and commands for the Church. This is nothing new, and yet perhaps we are in a time when church after church is simply giving in to to the cultural demands and choosing to ignore the Word. Of course all in the name of evangelism and reaching a lost society, while eroding the foundation that keeps a church strong, faithfulness to the Word of God.

    What they fail to realize is that once you give up on the authority of God’s Word, these churches will do all the can to stand strong in the rest of the Word, all the while finding it impossible. If Paul’s words on women in leadership are discarded, who in the NT speaks out against premarital sex and homosexuality? The floodgates to sin are now open for the church.

    When nearly half of our understanding of Christology and theology of the Church comes from the apostle Paul, Satan loves it when he is disqualified in clear and concise passages as it opens the floodgates to disqualify him in all other areas of disagreement with his writings in God’s Word. The authority of the Word is gone and we now read the Word through the lens of culture, instead of allowing the Word to influence culture.

    I am so sorry to hear about your son losing his job, but we do have an epidemic of feminism now in the Church and it will not stop until God puts an end to it. But a remnant will always be here, so those are the churches we want to be a part of.

  12. Ken,
    Women should have just not been made! Eve is the one who tempted Adam in the garden of Eden. They gossip, they yell. They’re lazy and most don’t even cook these days! They have kids and then lose their figure. What a sad world we live in.

  13. Ken,
    Do you believe that God still loves transgender and homosexual people? Do you believe that if they accept Christ they will get into Heaven?

  14. Sarah,
    God absolutely still loves transgender and homosexual people. Period. We are given the free gift of eternal life through our acceptance of Christ Jesus. Yes, sin separates us from the Lord, but it is my belief that the Lord would rather gently lead us in the right direction (whatever HE deems is the right direction) than for us to avoid Him because we think He does not love us.

  15. You are quite misinformed Gary.

    Women are fantastic! My wife and daughters, and many of the godly women I know are some of the most awesome, hard-working people you will ever meet or come to know. And they feed their bodies with good things and stay in great shape! When one is comfortable in the things God has given each of us, including our gifting, our looks, or talents ad our roles in His Kingdom, nothing can be better.

    You should see my daughters and daughters-in-law with their children surrounding them loving on them. Their husbands busting their tails so that they can provide great lives for their wives to stay home and do what is most important in this whole world, raise the next generation of godly offspring.

    Each one of them could have been a scientist, doctor or boss, but instead, they have chosen a better way and found great fulfillment in it. If others feel led of the Lord to go onto profession or leave their babies hours on end with Daycare for a paycheck, then we would question why they would believe their sense from the Lord overrides His clear teaching on the matter, but they are free to live their own lives as they believe God is directing them.

    None of what you write is true, and certainly not what we believe. But here is your red herring: You want to equate God telling women that they are not to teach or exercise authority in the Church as some massive punishment, without realizing that it is God’s protection upon them, and His Church.

    Women are your equal Gary, and many may be wiser, smarter and more talented than you or me. Yet, the wisest thing a Christian can do is to believe God at His Word, even the things most difficult to understand.

    I know it can be confusing to you so you think that somehow women are inferior to men because God asks them to play a different role in the church and in the family, but this is not true. You really need to put aside your misogyny and get your thinking lined up with God’s Word. Realize that God has wondrously made women perfectly complete in Christ and together with the right man they become one flesh that can advance the kingdom together, doing things God’s ways, advancing the kingdom by how they do “family” together. And the true Christian family is sorely needed as salt and light to this world.

  16. Ken,
    I am going to say that your response to that question was very moving. As soon as I read the comment (before your response) I was halfway expecting you or Lori to wholeheartedly agree! Only because I had a different idea of who the both of you were. But I am glad that I learned differently. I love Christ as you and Lori do and while I do not agree with you guys on much, I appreciate your response Ken.
    Women are amazing! I would know-I am one! <3

  17. You bet! I have some wonderful friends who gay, and I love them dearly. Some struggle to be freed from the oppression and bondage of such sins. While we are at it, let me also confess that quite a few of the friends I love dearly were adulterers, drunkards, and sinners of very gross sins, especially before they came to know the Lord Jesus.

    Hate me if you wish, but I have also found myself at some gay parties and tried to be a light in the darkness without being obnoxious or difficult in any way, and enjoyed my conversations in trying to understand how others who are so different from me in how they think and live. You never know how God may use you when you are open to just walking where He seems to take you.

    Surely if I love the sinner, God loves them far more and does not want any sinner to perish but to have eternal life! And how will they know about Jesus and His saving grace if we will not befriend them and share Christ with them?

    God loves all the lost dearly, and there is no sin that is unpardonable, except for the rejection of God’s salvation in Christ Jesus. It is open to all. I am thrilled to see Kanye West and other great sinners coming to a knowledge of the Lord Jesus and pray that there will be a great revival in America. I am always a bit concerned when a sinner in great bondage of sin breaks free as the pull of the addictions are too hard to battle in the flesh, but can be surely overcome with a walk in the Spirit.

    May all the gays and transgenders turn to GOd and find the peace they are seeking in this life and the next. For as the ex-murderer the apostle Paul tells us from God:

    “For we ourselves were once foolish, disobedient, led astray, slaves to various passions and pleasures, passing our days in malice and envy, hated by others and hating one another. But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, 5he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit” (Titus 3:3-5)

  18. I want to really reiterate this:
    God absolutely still loves Homosexual and Transgender people. God wants everyone to have a relationship with Him.
    I am not going to go into the dumpster-fire debate about the “sin” aspect of being gay, because that’s strictly a conversation between you and God. But I will say this: please, whoever is reading this, you have a friend in God. There is such a high suicide rate with gay teens and that just breaks my heart….please, please, please don’t let any fire and brimstone preacher make you feel like God doesn’t love you. God DOES love you-no matter what you do or what you’ve done. God wants you to speak with Him when you are hurting.

  19. Thanks Alese!

    Unfortunately, this is a misconception about us. In part, it comes from Lori being zealous for what she teaches from God’s Word on the role of women, so it can appear she is being harsh with women, but her intent is just to get them to think for themselves before going along with the natural flow of society and a lukewarm church. The rest is made up by the trolls and those who seek to destroy her ministry. They will twist and mischaracterize everything they can, much like the Dems and Republicans tend to do to each other to try and win.

    But the honest truth is that in God’s economy women can be totally amazing and truly a gift from God to a loving husband. They can be very productive in society in many ways, especially when single or after the children are out of the home, but their own babies and children should be their top priority. They will have their natural bent of sins to deal with just as men must deal with their fleshly desires before God to discipline them, and bring them into subjection to Christ Jesus. We are different, man and woman, but both uniquely made in the image of God.

    Yet, just as the Son is not the Father and the Spirit is not the Son, each one plays a role in the trinity of equals with the Son living in submission to the Father, so too marriage is the Christian to model this same submission for the world to see. Man submissive to God and wife submissive to husband, and children submissive to both!

    And who is greater? The one who lays done his or her life for them all. It is not one born greater, or in a greater role, but one earns greatness in the Kingdom of God by serving others. This is the message that Lori is shouting from the rooftops of social media, “God’s ways require women to become the servant of all.” Men are no exception to this rule, but she is not teaching men :). But husband’s need to also understand this message clearly, although it is taught regularly in the churches, unlike the passages concerning women’s roles in the church and family that pastors will avoid like the plague.

  20. The oppression of equal outcome regardless of effort, ability, and appropriateness.

    But yes I agree. Amen!

  21. You bet Alese!
    God loves all sinners and desires that they repent and accept the salvation that He offers: To be dead to sin, freed from sin and alive in Christ Jesus. To do this is a personal choice to Believe God and accept the great salvation that He has to offer all of mankind.

    We all struggle with sins in our lives or at least have had great struggles in the past. But once we are saved, we are told that we are now free to love and serve God without being in bondage to our sins. We can now say “no” to sin and “yes” to righteousness each and every moment of the day. To do so requires simply that we learn to trust and believe God more and more each day. Will we be perfect at it… no way, but we should be growing up into Christ day by day.

    Almost each and every sin comes from a lack of faith, and true obedience comes by walking in faith in the Spirit and Word of God. God expects us to obey and follow Him after we come to a saving knowledge of His Son, and to put away our old childish and sinful things, and enter into the things of God.

    For this is the proof of our salvation that we walk in His love and righteousness and bear much fruit of His Spirit outworking in our lives. So, by all means, let us find these words of Jesus to be true in our lives and the lives of all sinners: “Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light” (Matt. 11: 28-30).

  22. Churches are always walking a line between trying to be relevant to their culture while at the same time not violating God’s clear Word and commands for the Church.

    It never ceases to amaze me how so many people who claim to be born again, especially leaders within the church, are obsessed with the idea of “cultural relevance.” Anyone who has done even a cursory reading of the New Testament will realize that there are few things less relevant to the permanence and power of God’s Word than “the culture.” Indeed, the very act of surrendering one’s life to Jesus means turning one’s back on “the culture” and all that it values. Jesus Himself reminded those who followed Him that although they are journeying through this world and must for a short time be in it, they are not to be OF it.

    Sadly, the vast majority of self-described “Christians” very clearly hold the values of the world (i.e., “the culture”) in much higher esteem than they hold the values and commandments of our Lord Jesus, their pious-sounding Sunday morning platitudes to the contrary notwithstanding. Their behavior and words throughout the other six-and-nine-tenths days of the week in which they are not warming church pews attests loudly to this. What these people need to realize is that when Jesus returns, the first thing He is going to do is cleanse the church, separating the wheat from the tares and it will not be a pleasant process, to put it mildly. Most self-described “Christians” today are tares who need to get their priorities straight, examine their hearts with a humble appetite for the truth, and decide who their True Lord is: Jesus, or “the culture.”

  23. I would hate to imagine where I would be if it weren’t for my fire and brimstone preacher who preached the gospel to me regardless of how it would make me feel. My pastor is truly a humble, loving man, but he does not play when it comes to the Word of God. He knows that Hell is real, that Hell is never full, and that Hell receives thousands of permanent residents every single day!

    He gives the analogy that if you took all the sand from all the beaches on planet Earth and flew them to the moon, a single grain at a time, until you were completely finished, you wouldn’t have even spent 1 minute in eternity.

    The love of God is magnified, and far more intense, when you realize that God had no reason to love any of us. The cross of Calvary was our fault! God gave US, (His enemies: Romans 5:10), His Son Jesus Christ, and sacrificed Him instead of US! They whipped the Lamb of God! They spit on the Creator! They pierced His skull with thorns to mock the King! All this God suffered, not because we were lovable, but because He loved us! THAT love, that day, is the reason why any of us have a home in Heaven.

    The love of God offered to the homosexual, and any other sinner, is that gift of salvation. Salvation from sin, and death, and Hell: where the worm dieth not and the fire is never quenched (Mark 9:48)! It is not unloving to tell somebody that their sin separates them from God, and that they are on their way to Hell, IF you tell them how they can be saved! “As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten, be zealous therefore, and repent.” (Revelations 3:19)

    There is only one way to Heaven, and it’s through Jesus Christ. Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” (John 14:6)
    You have to admit that you are a sinner: “…. God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.” (James 4:6) “As it is written, There is none righteous, no not one.” (Romans 3:10)

    Be willing to turn from sin, which is called repentance: “And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men everywhere to repent.” (Acts 17:30) “He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and fosaketh them shall have mercy.” (Proverbs 28:13)

    And you must believe that Jesus Christ died for you, was buried, and rose from the dead: “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.” (Romans 10:9+10)

    “For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.” (Romans 10:13)

  24. Hi, feeriker,

    Certainly, I agree with you about too many churches and Christian families not understanding that we are to be “different” from the culture, not just run headlong into embracing it, in the areas that conflict with God’s Word.

    There will always be a tension while the child of God is here on earth but as Jesus told us: “If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you” (John 15:19).

    We must be careful not to look different than the world just to be different, but to look different to the world from the inside out. I am hopeful that many of those you may seem as “tares” are truly saved, but still babies and need to grow up into Christ, but regardless, let us allow the wheat and tares to grow side by side until the great harvest where each will have their works and heart tested by fire to see if anything valuable remains. Christ knows full well who belongs to Him and who does not. We do not need to judge others’ salvation, but we do need to stand strong on God’s Word.

  25. Amen and Amen to what you write Mara! So well said. Thank you!

    We must be careful not just to love sinners to hell, but to be clear with them that God requires repentance and faith from us all. It is the way to salvation and there is no other way besides Christ Jesus and accepting the great salvation by grace that God has to give all who believe in Him.

    And all who believe will result in a radically changed life from the inside that shines out. It is the natural fruit of salvation to desire to walk in obedience to God’s Word and shine His love for all to see!

  26. Alese. Gay teens dont commit suicide from walking into a christian church hearing 1 word or critique of lifestyle and now suicide. They commit their life to the devils ways and satan tells them to do it. They are sad lonely and starving for identity. I have been around homosexuals my whole life many family members and these are people with real problems.

    God sends many to hell even most, homosexuals are a small percentage of that population. Truth is you worship them as if loving them will bring you devinity. You disagree with lori on most things because you are wrong most of the time.

  27. Thanks Ken

    I just had to walk out of an international church I was visiting on Friday because a women was preaching.

    American church hear me out. I’ve been involved in world missions for most of my twenties and sadly the evangelical feminist spirit of the age is rampant all across the world.

    I was removed from a mission trip in the past when after almost a year of being under female leadership I had enough and was asked to leave.

    The head director told me “we pick women for positions in leadership because we feel they possess more of the qualities we are looking for in leaders”

    It’s sad how much egalitariamism dominates para church organizations and ministries overseas. They are all for “female leadrship” and your in the minority and seen as a threat if you disagree. You have to sit down shut up and take it.

    Most of the people around me think it’s weird I don’t work for a sending agency or I’m not involved in a missions team. Their all and I mean all egalitarian.

    It’s sad that such a clear command of scripture is neglected and such spineless theologically lukewarm Christians compromise on such a clear command in scripture.

    I wouldn’t listen to a an openly homosexual preacher or attend his church
    I wouldn’t seek out the council of a man that was involved in an unrepentant affair he was having on his wife.
    I wouldn’t consider a man for the position of elder in my church if he is an abortion doctor
    Because the Bible defines all these behaviors as sinful and wrong and I have no biblical basis to live in them.

    So why is it any different if I’m in church and a woman stand up to deliver a sermon

    Should I sit there as someone blatantly violates and lives in open rebellion and disobedience to Gods word

    No I won’t compromise and I will continue to be unpopular and different among my peers

    Evangelical feminism will always lead to theological liberalism and once you allow yourself to compromise on something so clear you set a dangerous precedent in how you exegete anything in scripture

  28. It’s high time that men stop eating from the forbidden fruit of feminism that their “Eves” are feeding them and stand up in their God given authority and stop going against the word of God by letting women lead in church. There is not one church in my area that doesn’t have a woman serving in a leadership role. In fact a lot of them have the pastor’s wife listed as pastor too. As a Christian,God fearing,Bible believing wife this irritates me so much.Christian Male Church Leaders please stand up and lead!!!!!! Adam sinned in the garden that day too and our men of today are continuing to sin every time they take a bite of the feminist fruit! The men are at fault just as much as women in this matter.

  29. Thanks, Rock, for your comments and example. The less people there are that take a stand for Biblical truths, the more difficult it is for those who are in various churches to realize they may be living their lives out of harmony with correct teachings. If people are taught, by word and example, how to live their lives as God has told us to, then more would follow. It seems that, as sin has become more normalized, more think its fine to do whatever, especially during the growing up years, say 14-24 ish.

  30. I in most cases would also walk out of any Church service that is lead or pastored by a woman, or she is preaching. If the topic was marriage and family and it was outside of a church gathering, or something not teaching the Word, and her husband is alongside her, I would not have much problem with that.

    I have been a part of and known many missions and those I would be involved with have not up til now had women in leadership and are quite Biblically conservative. But even many years ago the Presbyterian, Pentecostal, and progressive churches have had women teachers/preachers.

    Exactly right that once you throw out Paul on this issue … lots of other things begin to be compromised until a few years later you cannot see any integrity and authority of the Word in these churches and organizations. If we think this is bad… just wait a decade! :{.

  31. Amen Anonymous! The only reason it happens is that the men eat the apple too. It’s easier than dealing with the fallout of saying no and turning Eve over to God to deal with her. Who wants to deal with an upset Eve who is feeling oppressed?

    Wake up men of God and the true Church of God!

  32. Too true, but the remnant of God will always exist and be fruitful. We have to let those who want to walk away from Biblical authority do so… but create strong churches that will not give in to the massive tidal wave of culture… “and everyone did what was right in their own eyes.”

  33. Frankly, the idea of “gender equality” is just a false doctrine. Such “gender equality” is not of God! The idea of “equality” itself is false and hence that is why there are so many problems in the Church in the west.

    Many women are not wise, but foolish, stupid, and downright idiotic, and I say this as a woman – they only drink, party, fornicate and commit adultery. Many who are “talented” are only talented in relation to their stupid “careers” which your wife so hates.

    While mistreating anyone is wrong, the idea of “gender equality” is false. Let me prove it to you: a wife is subject to her husband (Ephesians 5:22; 1 Timothy 2:11). This goes against “equality”.

    Don’t get me wrong, I fully affirm that a wife is to be subject to her husband, and that he is to have the final say, not her. She is to quietly obey him.

    Many western Christians can’t understand why “equality” is wrong because they are so indoctrinated by it. As someone from a non-western culture (Eastern culture) and a Christian, I can see through the lies of equality, rights and liberties for what it is. Such is of the spirit of the humanism.

    Want to know why there are so many marriage problems in the west? “Gender equality”. That’s right.

    Don’t get me wrong, I am not advocating for violence against women, or for that matter, against men, but “equality” is a false doctrine and undermines the headship of a husband, which is wrong.

  34. Don’t you think praising oneself is a bit rich? Don’t you see how evil many women are?
    I say this as woman myself. This worship of women needs to stop. It is wrong. That is exactly what you are doing by self-praise.

  35. This is something that really bothers me too!

    I realize men are conditioned, as well, regarding the roles of women. And are attacked mercilessly when they attempt to take the lead, etc.

    But my goodness! We have watched the Pastor, and men in “leadership” roles, sit back and passively allow the aggressive women in the church run rough shod over them and take over!

    When my husband and a couple of other men privately approached the Pastor, essentially our families were told to get on board or leave.
    (Which many of us did)

    So, yes. Men are oppressed in the church by political correctness and the women.

    Please! Men! Stand up! We need you!

  36. Well, first of all, women need to stop demanding that they be ‘elevated’. Women love to take advantages of all benefits given to them, especially their husbands. They love to use the command that a husband must love his wife to mean that he must buy her gifts, not make her have more children than she wants, and to accommodate for her stupid career, if she is even capable of having a career.

    The result of this are failed marriages, whether it end up in divorce at law, or what I call a ‘spiritual divorce’ where despite the husband and wife still living together, they are no longer united.

    Women need to stop being worshiped, and women need to stop praising themselves, that they are “awesome” or “righteous”. They are neither awesome nor righteous.

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