No, Wives Do Not Have to Submit to Evil

No, Wives Do Not Have to Submit to Evil

We have had a few men through the years who want me to teach that wives should submit to their husbands in everything, yes, even if husbands ask their wives to do evil. They feel that I need to repent since I don’t teach women this. I don’t believe women should submit to physical abuse nor to anything evil the husband asks her to do. Yesterday, two men took me to task on this very topic since I listed a few things on yesterday’s blog post that women should not submit to if their husbands ask them to do so. Here is Ken’s (my husband’s) reply to them:

You should take a step back and think and pray about this. It seems you are more bent on closing the box with no loopholes for a wife’s submission than honoring the whole of God’s Word that instructs us to live righteous lives. We all must walk a path every day faced with our biblically-mandated responsibilities to our employers and the state, and yet we draw the line when it comes to clear evil or when we are asked to participate in sin. Why would this be any different for a submissive wife?

We, too, understand how the natural mind works and that some wives, once given an “out” to decide what is evil or not evil, may defend their unsubmissive hearts by claiming that their husband is being evil, or doing evil, when he is not. She sets herself up as judge and justifies her unsubmissiveness. Do you think that by closing the box with an all encompassing “EVERYTHING” you will somehow win her heart? If so, you have missed the point of submission. And what is your real end point here? To stop all these unsubmissive wives from being disobedient by emphasizing one verse telling them to submit in “everything”? It won’t happen.

Submission is a willful act of the heart, mind, and soul that is totally devoted to doing things God’s ways. It is not some hammer that can be used to seal up the marriage box making sure that the husband is lord of a marriage, just as Christ does not seal up our complete obedience with His Lordship. No, Christ asks us to follow Him in EVERYTHING and when we do not, He does not pound us, but lovingly takes us where we are, and with further instruction, discipline, and usually just showing us more love, he gently moves us forward as we grow up into Him, our Head.

Please do a word study on the Greek Word “panti” which means “all,” “everyone,” or “everything.” It may surprise you to discover that it is used in some contexts where it cannot possibly mean “EVERYTHING” but does mean “everything” or “all” as would be sensibly understood by the reader. If I said to you, “Everything I try to do lately is not working out,” would you read that literally as everything I touched turned out badly? That even the omelet I made that morning was a bad omelet? Of course not. You would understand that everything as it relates to what I believe are the most important parts of my life are not going well, and you would use common sense in understanding language that even the words “all” and “everything” have certain limits. Such limits need to be few in this context of submission or the word “everything” becomes nonsense. But this does not mean that we throw out the broader context of the Word of God as a whole which the inspired writer had in mind when he wrote it.

I believe that Peter and Paul would be ashamed to have Christian men teaching that a wife’s submission extends to evil, but more so the idea that submission can be forced upon a wife. Either you have a wife who has a submissive heart or you do not. And if she has a submissive heart she wants to please her husband in everything. That is her goal and desire and he should not be testing her with evil where she has to choose between God’s Word, and His righteousness, and her husband’s demands. If your wife is trying to pick and choose what to submit in, she needs to work on her heart, and you regularly throwing “submit in everything” will not win her heart with love. That is not to say that you cannot gently in love remind her of what God is asking of her, but sometimes God may be testing our love for our wives by their disobedience as we both grow up together in Christ.

“Husbands love your wives as Christ loves the church” is a rich statement, especially in light of Christ’s love and patience with a rebellious church. Yet He patiently waits for that day when every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord. We can patiently wait too, given his example and ask our wives to go to God in asking the question, “What is God asking you to do to live in submission to your husband in everything?” After all, only obedience and submission freely given in love amounts to anything in this life and the next. All the rest is “wood, hay, or stubble” and will be burned up.

There is a fantastic Bible verse that says, “Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all (pantas) men” (Romans 5:18). Now tell me you believe that the use of the same word “panta” here in this context means that everyone who has ever lived has been justified and given life though Christ Jesus. Or is this “all” or “everyone” qualified by the rest of what we know about the scriptures that one has to reach out and receive life for it to be granted unto them?

God does not expect us to submit to evil from our government, yet tells us to “submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human institution, whether to a king as the one in authority,” (1 Peter 2:13). When 666 comes along are you going to accept it? Or will you rightfully use your common sense and the judgment of the whole Word to refuse it as evil? The “every” is from the same root word as “pantas” proving once again that when we use the words “every, all, and everything” there are almost always qualifiers of common sense and the Word of God that must be applied.

If this troubles you because you can’t throw “submission in everything” into a nice tidy box of a husband’s complete headship, welcome to the world of Christianity where God is looking for hearts and minds sold out on him, not forcing us into His box. Let’s have a sensible faith that is based on trusting God fully at His Word, but let’s not push God’s Word by making it woodenly literal without paying attention to the broader context of what God demands of us for righteousness. Everything means everything within the realm of righteousness, and wife should be submitting in everything, but not when it goes contrary to the rest of God’s Word.

Here is what Ken wrote to the other man: Please prayerfully read my comments to the man above as they apply even more so to you. It seems your agenda has become more important than holding the truth in righteousness. Yet you cannot see it because you are so keen on making sure the box of submission is bolted down firmly with no outs. So you really believe a wife should submit to a threesome? Abort her child at a husband’s command? What if he wants her to give up her Christianity? The list is endless of clear evils that no truly Christian man would ask of a wife, yet you believe that a wife should submit to these things and expect God’s covering upon her? Although “submit in everything” is a very important mandate to Christian wives, so, too, are the verses to submit to our worldly and spiritual leaders in everything… yet you would not submit to their request for to do evil. Let’s have a sensible faith based on the whole of God’s Word.

Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.
Romans 12:9

40 thoughts on “No, Wives Do Not Have to Submit to Evil

  1. Claiming a wife must do evil things specifically forbidden in scripture if her husband commands her to is claiming that a husband trumps God. It really is that simple. Either she can and should say no to outright evil like a threesome or aborting her child or robbing a bank OR her husband becomes God to her when she marries and she should ignore what the real God says from then on. That’s the issue we are dealing with here.

    A husband’s authority cannot trump what God says. God is always the final authority. A husband is an authority over his wife, but only in the sphere of authority given to him by God. A husband does not have the right to overrule God’s commands. A woman must obey God rather than her husband where God has clearly given commands in scripture. Matters of wisdom or conscience should submit to her husband’s leadership, but commands from God in scripture come first, even above her husband.

  2. Certainly there are limits to authority. Peter urged Christians to follow the law and not suffer as evildoers, but of course he and other early Christians were prepared to flout the law by failing to offer incense to the emperor. Our husbands are our lawful authority, and it is not right for us to be seeking to escape that authority as if we were toddlers testing out their parents’ limits, but if our husbands tell us to offer up our kids to Satan at the next Black Mass we oughtn’t obey.

    But Naaman wasn’t considered sinful for bowing in the House of Rimmon, and Sarah did not stop Abraham from sending her to another man’s house (twice), so there may be situations where our duty to follow our husband’s authority might force us into questionable situations.

    Really, this underscores the importance of being yoked to a Godly man, though sin being what it is this doesn’t always happen.

  3. Excellent post, and great response from Ken. A women certainly should not submit to evil. Other examples include viewing porn with her husband, practicing contraception, tolerating his drug or alcohol issues, participating in them, or the worst, which one young Christian mother confided in me, a woman should never stay with a man who is molesting her children, in marriage. Was gobsmacked that any Christian man would consider this, but she told me christian men were telling her not to leave her child molesting husband, because divorce is bad. Divorce certainly isn’t good, but God never expects a wife to remain with a child molester.

    1. Yes agree and we need to ask ourselves if we are condoning or participating in sin as we are all held accountable for our own sin and can’t blame another for what we allow. It can be hard to distinguish what is truly sin compared to what we personally feel convicted of but when it comes to evil I think it is quite clear according to scripture. Some Christians teach woman to stay in a truly physically abusive marriage but the effects on children are devastating. We aren’t even helping or loving our husband’s when we enable them to do evil works.

    2. I am glad to read a mention of contraception.

      Many women are either coerced into practicing contraception or feels forced to honour the marriage dept with a husband who is doing so.

      Which puts them in an impossible dilemma.

      My view is that submission cannot mean being forced to practice this sin. But may mean the passive acceptance of her husband doing so.

      Any thoughts ?

      1. A friend of mine had a great system for the contraception issue when her husband wanted to contracept and she did not: She practiced NFP fertility tracking, and let her husband know when she was fertile or infertile. Thus, the sin of contraception would be on him if he chose to practice it during her fertile times, rather than on her, but she was still respecting her husband. (Years later, they are now in agreement and have put away all contraceptive practices.)

      2. There are things that are very Biblically clear that a wife is not to submit to as they are evil, and then we enter a gray zone of issues of personal conscience. I am much more apt to believe a wife should have her conscience informed by her husband, especially a godly husband, and trust that God’s covering for her submission is complete. If a wife chooses to enforce her conscience over her husband’s that is between her and the Lord, but she is no longer under the covering of her husband who stands as her head before Christ. It is not a position to enter into lightly.

        Instead, I would like to think that it is covered by this verse: “No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation, he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it” (1Cor.10:13). A wife should do all she can to trust in his promise and find a way of escape that allows her to keep all of her responsibilities to God’s Word.

  4. My husband only wants 2 children. He uses contraception, and is insisting that I go on the pill, or have a implant. I have prayed about it, talked til I was blue in the face! Am I committing evil if I do what he asks?

    1. Vanessa – I would not submit to either, as I believe that both fall into the category of evil. However, I would take the path that I mentioned above in a response to Susanne. That’s a hard position to be in – I feel for you.

    2. Hi Vanessa,

      I wish there was an easy answer, but I believe the Lord will give you the right answer if your heart is set on Him and His righteousness. See my comment just above as I believe it is the same answer for you. We all will stand before God someday and give an account for our own lives and in some cases, a wife will be able to be justified in her actions by saying, “My husband made me do it as I honored him with the submission you required of me.”

      Be sure to stay covered by the Word and prayer, and see if God will give you a solution “outside the box” to win your husband over to your desired outcome. Is there something he would love from you that would make him gladly give up his requests for you to use contraception?

      1. # of children should have been discussed BEFORE marriage. If you were dumb enough go not discuss it beforehand you diserve the consequences!

        1. Jim, this theologically does not compute.

          By this line of reasoning, children are a convenience. A planned event. Just as our lives are nor our own, our children belong to God. We are entrusted with their care and conditioning as they age thru the age of reasoning.

          What if the agreed number is 4, but mama is faced with infertility on the first try? What if the agreed number is 3, but mama is pregnant with twins on the third try?

          Gen 1:28 offers no such limit on children. The term ‘nations’ is used. A nation is quite a number of people!
          1 Cor 7:5 offers no such limitation on sexual activity. To the contrary, if she is in the mood and he isn’t, he is to perform out of obedience. If he is in the mood and she isn’t, she is to perform out of obedience. The natural outcome of intercourse is pregnancy.
          Ma 6:26 outlines our concerns for family. While a man is to provide (ref: 1 Tim 5:8), he is also not to worry (Phil 4:6) but to bring all things before the Father in prayer.

    3. Vanessa – I do not believe you are committing evil if you submit to your husband in this area.
      Especially if your husband is the main income earner in your household – kids are expensive! We have four, and honestly, sometimes it’s a huge struggle financially to keep them in school, clothed and fed. It’s a mammoth task, with the expenses never ending.

      Do you know why your husband only wants two children? Are his reasons valid? Or could you bring yourself to accept his reasons, if you prayed?

      Does he understand the risks you would be taking with your body if you go on the pill or have an implant (putting artificial hormones into your body which can cause issues in some women)? Does he understand how the pill works? Some people are unaware that the pill can basically cause an abortion every month, by making the womb inhospitable and causing your body to expel the egg (which has potentially been fertilized).

      Do you have any children yet? My own husband was adamant that we had completed our family at 2 children, then we had an “oops”. Nearly five years later, I desperately wanted another baby, and he agreed, so now we have four ranging in age from 6 to 15.
      After our last baby was born, my husband was again adamant that our family was finished – he was 40 by then, and didn’t want any more children at his age, and rather than fill my body with artificial hormones, we decided (together) that I would have a tubal ligation.

      The Bible does not speak against contraception. We are instructed to go forth and multiply (which could be one child, or two, or three… it isn’t necessarily any more than that) and of course we are to see children as blessings and gifts from God, and to raise them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. Our personal belief is that it’s more glorying to God to raise fewer children well, than to be constantly struggling and our children ending up missing out.

      If your heart is right, you’re not sinning. I think it is easier to have the right heart and the right spirit if we’re obeying our husbands in this, than if we go directly against his express wishes.

      1. KAK, you have made assertions which are theologically incorrect at best, heretical at worst.

        Finances are a reality of this life, but nowhere is guidance given in the Bible as to make this a concern when considering children. To the contrary, all our worries are to be cast on Him, we are simply to execute the commandments (all 600+ OT or 1000+ NT) out of obedience and entrust Him with the outcomes.

        “If your heart is right, you’re not sinning”. This stands in direct opposition to the affirmation in Jer 17:9 that states that the heart is DECEITFUL ABOVE ALL THINGS. Other verses would include Ma 15:19, Prov 28:26. The guidance offered is precisely 180deg from the Truth!

        Much of this post can be theologically corrected when reviewing the Strange Fire QnA:
        https://youtu.be/RhG2CBVQy3w
        https://youtu.be/pt9SGH9NVP8
        Offered here in support of continued learning in the Word.

        1. Brian – I appreciate your concern, but I have discussed this at great length with the elders of my church, and stand by my comment.

          By “if your heart is right you’re not sinning” I meant, if you have a soft, tender heart that is able to be moulded by the Lord; if you’re willing to serve Him, and everything you do is for the glory of the Lord. This state of heart is what serving the Lord is all about.

    4. Quite a difficult situation. Ensuring one’s spouse understands that the sex drive is for marriage and children before marriage will avoid this, however, our culture is full of those who were never taught the Biblical understanding behind sex, marriage, and children.

      You can explain to your husband that Contraception is actually illegal, as the Supreme Court had no right to legalize it in 1965 with the Griswold Vs. Connecticut case. Our laws come from nature and nature’s God, as the Declaration of Independence states, and since all of the 204 Founders were Christian, to one degree or another, there is no difficulty in understanding that they intended our laws to be based on the Bible. A great book on the topic is ‘Sexual Sabotage’ by Dr. Judith Reisman.

      Contraception is evil to the individual, family, and society.

      Non-cooperation with evil is a requirement of all Christians.

      ‘There is no witness so dreadful, no accuser so terrible as the conscience that dwells in the heart of every man’
      Polybius

      Bless you for being one of the few women in America who love and cherish children. Our nation needs far more of them.

      May God guide, lead, and comfort you as you seek to have his Will done in your marriage

    5. Vanessa – just my view and this is not the place for personal advice. But I think that you should not submit to the sin by practicing contraception yourself.

      You should still submit to your husband in honouring the Marriage Debt, even if he uses contraception. But not take any part in that contraception or initiate intimacy if he is going to.

  5. Thank you Lori!

    This has often bothered me, that some believe we should be submitting to our husbands even in sin.
    I wasn’t married when I first gave my life to the Lord and vowed to serve Him. I was just a teenager then, and I’d been serving the Lord for several years before God brought my husband into my life.

    My husband respects me a lot more when I stand up for what is right and godly, and do not join him in using drugs or alcohol. He has said often, even though he does ask me to join him, that he is glad I stand by my convictions and gently but firmly refuse. He is pleased that I provide a good example to our children, especially our teenagers. And when he does come to church with me, he has said it is much easier for him to come, if I have been true to God’s standard. He said he would see me as a hypocrite if I “obeyed” him and joined him in sin.

  6. After all, only obedience and submission freely given in love amounts to anything in this life and the next. All the rest is “wood, hay, or stubble” and will be burned up.

    There is a popular false notion that ‘romantic love’ affects the sanctity of things, like sex and submission.
    Marriage is what sanctifies sex according to God.

    I wouldn’t declare eternally worthless, the obedience of those who don’t ‘feel the love’ or who might feel coerced rather than feeling free. A person’s feelings can be quite wrong at times. And the Gold and precious stones that do not get burned up, surely isn’t people doing what feels good, free and easy to them. The demonstration of Christian submission, actually happens best when you end up doing things that cause you to deny yourself, pick up your cross, and follow Christ, against your own preferences. Furthermore, children in the marriage are benefited by the Godly peace that comes from the unity of purpose that submission brings, even when it isn’t fun for you. Children also learn to submit to authority by seeing their mom model the behavior. No wonder so many kids don’t know how to respect authority these days, they never saw the head obeyed and respected in their home, growing up.

    Even if you can’t give your obedience in love, it is still a more righteous act to be obedient that to be in rebellion against your God given head. Christ following women should be obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed, even if they aren’t able to do it out of love. Do it out of duty to God, or because you vowed to honor and obey your husband, or because it is fitting, in the Lord, to demonstrate submission in marriage, in front of your watching children, and so great a cloud of witnesses. Please choose to act righteously, even if you are doing it for the “wrong” reasons.

    Daniel 12:2-3 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

    Lori, I thank you for your work to turn women towards Godly living.

    1. Good points Elias. Yes, obedience even begrudgingly has eternal value if it is given to the Lordship of Christ. I am reminded of the parable of the two sons whose father asked them to go into the vineyard and work. The first said “No!” but he later went to work, the other said “yes” but did not go. Jesus extols the virtue of the obedient son (Matt. 21:28-32).

  7. I respectfully disagree in this matter of contraception as it had been laid out here. The marriage bed is not a bargaining chip. It is a holy and sanctified act between husband and wife. Maybe it wasn’t the case with the woman who used NFP, but the way it has been stated here led me to believe that she used sex as a tool. If your husband desires to have sex but you’re in your fertile time, he’s got to with hold himself from you?! Kind of like, well, you’re the one who doesn’t want anymore kids, so it’s gonna be your fault if we get pregnant. That’s not submission. That’s manipulation. That’s not winning your husband without a word. What if he travels, and the time he returns home is the no sex week? Really bad idea. He might start looking around while he’s out of town. Sounds to me like he gave in because he became tired of playing the NFP game.

    1. R – I don’t think you read that post regarding NFP correctly.

      “She practiced NFP fertility tracking, and let her husband know when she was fertile or infertile. Thus, the sin of contraception would be on him if he chose to practice it during her fertile times…”

      There is no mention of the husband having to withhold himself. When she was fertile, if he wanted to use contraception he could… and probably did.

      I don’t believe that the Bible teaches that (all forms of) contraception is a sin but if there is a crisis of conscience between a husband and a wife on this matter this sounds like a pretty good solution to me.

      1. Thankyou, Trey. I WAS reading that incorrectly. It makes more sense to me now. I have to admit though, that I still would feel there was a wedge between my husband and I and that we were not on the same page. I’m definitely not well versed enough to be commenting on this issue.

  8. It’s sad to see even Christian men requiring submission from their wives in matters contrary to God’s word. I know of a man who had his wife work to support the family because he quit his job to go to Bible college. He was away from home often to attend classes leaving the wife to be both father and mother. No one in the church saw the error in this. Can God call a man to the pastorate at the expense of his calling to provide for his family?

    I also know a man who insists that his wife put in a full day’s work every workday yet he’s blessed with a great job that more than provides for all the family needs. He points to the requirement for submission on the wife’s part to demand for her participation in the work force even though she has to abandon their very young children to an institution all day everyday.

    When submission is pulled, kicking and screaming, out of the context of the whole counsel of God’s Word, it becomes a vicious weapon wielded by one spouse against another.

      1. Sadly men and women have fallen into the feminist inspired culture of contraception. Which is directly against Gods design for marriage and for women. And which is part of a culture of sin, promiscuity and ultimately abortion.

          1. It is this realisation that is I believe increasingly convincing Christian couples of all denominations that contraception is a serious sin.

    1. I think we need to be very careful to ascribing “sin” and “evil” to a husband asking a wife to work and certain forms of contraception. Herein is the slippery slope that some are fearful of, and rightfully so, that a wife sets herself up as the decision maker on issues that are not clear from the Word as “sin.” The word “everything” cannot become so watered down that a wife claims “conscience” on issues that are tough issues, but extra-Biblical… and here in most cases a godly husband should be the tiebreaker as head of the family. These are not easy issues…

      1. I really don’t like the word “tiebreaker” used to describe a man’s headship in his home.
        You can’t have a democracy of two. And God was obviously smart enough not to set marriage up that way. That is an error of Feminism, that implies that a Christian marriage will work as well democratically as it would how God commands it. God gave man a mission, and then created his wife to assist him in that. If she has a competing mission and competing dreams, they will only create disunity and can pull the man away from what he was called to do. As head and body, she should submit to him in everything, thereby creating unity and harmony. A tie already sounds like a wife’s failure to obey God by submitting to her husband, and it makes her “vote” equal to his. As head, everything should go according to his direction, if it isn’t an unquestionable call to sin against God. Billions of men’s lives are being rendered ineffective for Christ, due to satanic Feminism causing their wives to pull them in other directions, away from their God given purpose. While it is loving to want to please your wife, that is never the purpose of any man. And while it is wise to hear your wife’s advice, the head should rule over his household well, and be submitted to in every thing.

        1. This is absolutely the correct paradigm.

          The Bible has legion of examples talking to hierarchy of authority and leadership. The best example, in my opinion, is the story in Ma 8:8-9. Jesus affirms the Centurion’s understanding as correct in Ma 8:10.

          [i]One cannot be in authority without having authority over them.[/i] Man has been given, instructed with leadership in the family, and servanthood to his authority (Christ). And Christ? Christ is a servant to the Father (Jo 5:23). Even within the Trinity, there is hierarchy. A woman does not stand on equal ground as her husband: that would be the Spirit of Jezebel speaking.

          [i]This does not mean of lesser value.[/i] Jesus states that He is One with the Father (Jo 10:30). Similarly, man and woman are coheirs in the Kingdom (Rom 8:17).

          Why is this invaluable to understand for the earthly plane? Because a woman who does not submit to her husband cannot be in authority over her children.

          Why is this invaluable to understand for the heavenly plane? Because we do not have access to the Father, except through the Son.

          [b]The roles are different, the authority is hierarchical and the value is equal.[/b]

          1. Apologies for the editing. I do not know how to make italics nor bold font, hence the [i]..[/i] and [b]..[/b] commands.

        2. In my experience, living with both a difficult wife for years and now a godly wife for years, in both cases there were very few things each month that required a decision that went contrary to what she desired. Yes, with a difficult wife just a few contrary decisions can cause great consternation, especially when she is trying to be boss. But overall, a husband should be trying to please his wife so long as the purpose and vision of the family are being achieved. For that matter, trying to please each other must be an important part of marriage.

          The husband is to provide leadership and direction in the family, just as he may at work. At work, we have set the policies, goals, and direction, including our values, and a team member knows that when they come to us with a request that is outside of the policy we will try to find a way to help them because we are family. But there are times we have to say “I am so sorry, but no.”

          Leadership like Jesus is by example first, by grace and love second, and commands come way down the list but are a necessary part of leadership. I agree with the statements, “While it is loving to want to please your wife, that is never the purpose of any man. And while it is wise to hear your wife’s advice, the head should rule over his household well, and be submitted to in every thing.” But how this is done needs to look like Jesus, not your typical boss at work as the world often misunderstands leadership as privilege, not service.

  9. Lori, would you comment on why Sarah and Rebecca were not rebuked by God for going along with their husbands’ schemes to pass them off as sisters which put them at the risk of adultery, but Sapphira was struck dead for going along with Ananaias’ scheme to understate the proceeds from the sale of their property. Thank you

    1. I’m not Lori, but just want to suggest… God knows the heart and motive. Maybe Saphira gladly joined, but Rebecca and Sarah only out of obedience? Also, I don’t think Rebecca or Sarah are distinctly commended for those instances, but only commended for “calling him lord” (Sarah).

    2. I would be careful seeing God fearing Sarah and Rebecca in the same light as Sapphira. Ananaias and Sapphira’s grave sin was to sin against the Holy Spirit. They were promising God something and not delivering whereas Sarah and Rebecca were lying to men. Big difference. Also, I bet God gives extra grace for sins committed to try and save one’s life as is obvious in the first two cases.

  10. Lori, you and Ken have a great style of thinking about this.

    These kinds of questions and arguments are just verbal attempts to trap you and if possible, humiliate you. The same kind of word games that kids play in school to bully.

    I simply don’t play those games any more. Nice to see that Ken doesn’t give into the bullies either.

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